Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: width of grip in (aiki-)jo

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    6
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default width of grip in (aiki-)jo

    Hi,

    I practice aikido and thus aiki-ken and aiki-jo.
    In bokken-jo kata all teachers say that the advantage of the sword is that it's sharper and the advantage of the jo that it's longer. Ironically most people have such a wide grip in e.g. yokomen uchi that it completely negates the advantage in length.
    So what are the recommendations of the koryu on the width of the grip?
    Joep Schuurkes

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,147
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Funny you should mention it. We have an aikidoka in our SMR-group. He just started wtith Jodo this semester but has trained aikido for 11 years (and aiki-jo). It kinda notices sometimes since he has this habbit of griping the jo at about half it's length (in some techniques), whereas the ideal grip would be with one hand at the base and the other upwards at roughly one quarter of the jo's length.

    Kinda like this:

    In other techniques the grip is a bit wider to suit the situation:

    Those pics are from a Jodo Kihon (basic) techniques DVD so I assume the first one is the basic solo "Honte Uchi" kamae , (first technique of Kihon), and the second pic is "Kuri Tsuke", number 7 Kihon-technique with a partner.

    So with that grip you will have the length-advantage over a swordsman...That was one of the first things, (if not the first thing), I was taught when I started with Jodo.
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Montréal, Québec
    Posts
    33
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Message deleted.
    Last edited by Guy LeSieur; 10th April 2006 at 17:30.
    Guy Le Sieur
    Renshinkan dōjō, Tenshin shōden shintō musō-ryū jō
    錬神館道場 天真正伝神道夢想流杖

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    6,226
    Likes (received)
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jss
    ...So what are the recommendations of the koryu on the width of the grip?
    I don't practice koryu jo, but rather Seiki Ryu Jodo (a gendai, Aiki-jo art).

    I'd say, "It depends."

    The great advantage of the jo is flexibility. It can be held in a rather wide grip for leverage, or a narrow grip for reach; or anything in between. Even one-handed, as needed.

    Thoughts?
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    6,226
    Likes (received)
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred27
    ...Those pics are from a Jodo Kihon (basic) techniques DVD...
    That looks like Shimabukuro Sensei.

    I know of him as a Karate and an Iai teacher. I didn't know he did Jodo. Does the DVD specify if it's SMR or ZNKR Seitei Jo he's doing?
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,147
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    That looks like Shimabukuro Sensei.

    I know of him as a Karate and an Iai teacher. I didn't know he did Jodo. Does the DVD specify if it's SMR or ZNKR Seitei Jo he's doing?
    Hm..well the DVD description says:
    8th dan Kyoshi, Masayuki Shimabukuro instructs the Kihon (Basics) of Shinto Muso Ryu Jodo in this video. The founder of Jodo, Muso Gonnosuke, was the only person to ever beat the legendary Musashi Miyamoto. Reenacted at the beginning of this film is that legendary battle. Contents include:History of Shinto Muso Ryu
    Etiquette -sitting -standing
    Jo Posture -ritsu jo -sage jo
    Jo Kamae
    Sword Handling
    Sword Kamae
    Sword Strikes
    12 Basic Strikes of Shinto Muso Ryu Jodo
    Striking Application shown with Partner
    So I guess it's the main SMR he is doing on the DVD.

    *EDIT*

    Hold it! Maybe it's not. Check this related product: Seitei Kata DVD In that one it says:
    8th dan Kyoshi, Masayuki Shimabukuro instructs the Seitei Katachi (Paired Kata) of Shinto Muso Ryu Jodo in this video. The founder of Jodo, Muso Gonnosuke, was the only person to ever beat the legendary Musashi Miyamoto. Reenacted at the beginning of this film is that legendary battle. Contents include:All 12 paired kata of Shinto Muso Ryu
    Regular and slow motion
    Multiple camera angles
    Professional narrative explanation
    From the descriptions I got the impression he was doing Shinto Muso-ryu rather than "All 12 paired kata of Shinto Muso-ryu" (which is actually 12 seitekata of ZKNR
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    metropolitan new york
    Posts
    289
    Likes (received)
    2

    Default

    There are variations in particular circumstances, but the kihon within the system of aikijo taught by Mitsugi Saotome is roughly:

    For aikiken, a distance of one fist between the two hands on the tsuka.

    For aikijo, a distance of two fists between the two hands on the jo.

    More than that and you may be making your partner distort his or her technique to avoid hitting your forward hand in many situations.

    That said, my experience is that unless you're working with an aikidoka who has trained directly with a shihan who places a strong emphasis on aikiken and aikijo, or who has some koryu weapons experience, you're likely to be working with someone that hasn't had terribly precise instruction in this area.

    FL

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    6
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    The great advantage of the jo is flexibility. It can be held in a rather wide grip for leverage, or a narrow grip for reach; or anything in between.
    Doesn't a wider grip reduce leverage?
    Joep Schuurkes

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    39
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred27


    In other techniques the grip is a bit wider to suit the situation:

    Those pics are from a Jodo Kihon (basic) techniques DVD so I assume the first one is the basic solo "Honte Uchi" kamae , (first technique of Kihon), and the second pic is "Kuri Tsuke", number 7 Kihon-technique with a partner.

    So with that grip you will have the length-advantage over a swordsman...That was one of the first things, (if not the first thing), I was taught when I started with Jodo.
    this guy wrote a book on Eishin Ryu right? I recognize him from that book.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    6,226
    Likes (received)
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jss
    Doesn't a wider grip reduce leverage?
    It depends on how you're using it. If you consider the hand on the end of the jo as the power hand, and the forward hand as the fulcrum, the greater the distance between the force and the fulcrum the greater the leverage at the far end.

    "Give me a long enough lever, and a place to stand, and I could move the world."
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    6,226
    Likes (received)
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lowriderx52
    this guy wrote a book on Eishin Ryu right? I recognize him from that book.
    Yes. Shimabukuro Sensei wrote Flashing Steel.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,147
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    Yes. Shimabukuro Sensei wrote Flashing Steel.
    Wow thats him? I own the flashing steel book. I think the current headmaster of his Eishin-ryu iaijutsu style has a quite high rank in Shinto Muso-ryu too.
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    97
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred27
    Wow thats him? I own the flashing steel book. I think the current headmaster of his Eishin-ryu iaijutsu style has a quite high rank in Shinto Muso-ryu too.

    Miura Takeyuki Hanshi studied Jodo with Shimizu Sensei, Nakajima Sensei and Otofuji Sensei. As well as his 7th dan Shihan in Shito Ryu Karatedo from Mabuni Kenzo soke, Shimabukuro Sensei is currently ranked 7th Dan in Jodo and 8th Dan Hanshi in MJER. Shimabukuro Sensei has studied and teaches both Seitei and Koryu Jo. He has studied Jodo with both Miura Sensei and Matsuda Sensei. I hope this helps.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    6
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    It depends on how you're using it. If you consider the hand on the end of the jo as the power hand, and the forward hand as the fulcrum, the greater the distance between the force and the fulcrum the greater the leverage at the far end.
    The only technique I can ome up with is controlling your opponent's weapon. Or are there others?
    When delivering a strike, I'd rather think of my shoulder as the fulcrum.

    "Give me a long enough lever, and a place to stand, and I could move the world."
    Archimedes, right? ;-)
    Joep Schuurkes

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,147
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Speaking of Saotome-sensei, I have a copy of his film "The Staff of Aikido", and if i were to go by that movie alone, I would say that his Aiki-jo uses use a forward grip at around the 35-40% section of the jo's length.
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •