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Thread: Miyamoto Musashi

  1. #1
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    Default Miyamoto Musashi

    Does anyone know the name of the sword style that he used? Just asking, that's all.

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    The name of the school that he created is Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu. More information about the school (which is still extant today) can be found here ... http://www.hyoho.com/Hyoho1.html

    And before you get jumped on, you have to add your full name to each post. The easiest way is to click "user CP" at the top, and add your ful name as your signature.

    Cheers,
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

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    Hi Paul, I was lurking , waiting and stalking for the kill Good save ! He owes you big...
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

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    Hi Paul, I was lurking , waiting and stalking for the kill Good save ! He owes you big...
    What can I say, it was twofer day. He got information and advice, all for the same price!
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

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    Musashi most likely learned Tori-ryu first, a comprehensive bujutsu system that included single-sword, dual-sword, jutte, kodachi, and shuriken techniques.

    From this Musashi formed Enmei-ryu kenjutsu. By the time he wrote "The Book of Five Rings", he had created Niten Ichi-ryu.
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, žonne he ęt guše gengan ženceš longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearaš. - The Beowulf Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Reyer
    Musashi most likely learned Tori-ryu first, a comprehensive bujutsu system that included single-sword, dual-sword, jutte, kodachi, and shuriken techniques.

    From this Musashi formed Enmei-ryu kenjutsu. By the time he wrote "The Book of Five Rings", he had created Niten Ichi-ryu.
    I'm interested in your source for this. I've never heard of Tori-ryu before. Musashi's father was an expert with the jutte, but as far as I understood Musashi had developed the ryoto waza on his own.
    Alex Bradshaw

    bradshaw.jp

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZealUK
    I'm interested in your source for this. I've never heard of Tori-ryu before. Musashi's father was an expert with the jutte, but as far as I understood Musashi had developed the ryoto waza on his own.
    Kenji Tokitsu's "Musashi: His Life and Writings" talks briefly about Tori ryu on page 26. The art was apparently founded at the end of 15th century by Hirata Shokan. The art was passed down to Hirata Munisai either directly or perhaps through a student of the founder. There are also certificates of transmission of Tori ryu written by Hirata Munisai, these are talked about on pages 159 and 160. One is preserved in the Hozanji temple in Ikoma, Yamamoto province (Nara). I have no idea where Josh gets his dual sword and shuriken techniques, though. Kenji Tokitsu says:

    In [Hirata Shokan's] school he taught the art of the sword and also, more specifically, the jitte and jujutsu. It was a period of war, and the martial arts were being directly applied on the field of battle. Thus Hirata Shokan also taught the naginata, the lance, and the bow, indispensable weapons for warriors of this period.
    There is no mention of nito or shuriken techniques. In addition to that, the Kokura Hibun says that Musashi created his art of the two swords based on the teachings he received on the jitte. This seems to run counter to Josh's statement that he learned two swords from his father. I haven't really seen anyone claim that in the books I've read.

    Finally, the author also theorizes that Hirata Munisai might have learned jujutsu from the founder of Takenouchi ryu and then passed on these teachings to Musashi.

    I don't know where the shuriken jutsu came from, although it's known that Musashi was very competent at it, and it might have been from an early age.

    ---
    Sebastien L.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLeclair
    This seems to run counter to Josh's statement that he learned two swords from his father.
    Er? I didn't exactly say that...

    My source .

    Granted it is Wikipedia, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.

    I just had a book about various koryu kenjutsu ryuha from the local library, and I took it back on Tuesday. I should look at it again and see what it says about Musashi and/or Tori-ryu.
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, žonne he ęt guše gengan ženceš longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearaš. - The Beowulf Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Reyer
    Musashi most likely learned Tori-ryu first, a comprehensive bujutsu system that included single-sword, dual-sword, jutte, kodachi, and shuriken techniques.

    Shuriken techniques are not listed in any of the surviving documents on Tori-ryu.

    More often than not you have researchers or writers quoting other researchers or writers who quote other researchers or writers in Japan recycling the same information without checking the original sources...this was particularly rampant during the airing of the NHK Musashi drama (shivers). In fact, there is an ongoing lawsuit over this very matter that still has not been resolved, yet.

    However, he was very proficient with the spear and known for using in conjunction with a other weapons.
    Jason Jennings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Reyer
    Er? I didn't exactly say that...

    My source .

    Granted it is Wikipedia, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.

    I just had a book about various koryu kenjutsu ryuha from the local library, and I took it back on Tuesday. I should look at it again and see what it says about Musashi and/or Tori-ryu.
    As a senior of the ryu I have an ongoing thing with the wiki people about trying to print info about Musashi from a reliable source. Even if good info goes on there its not unusual for some anime fan to delete it and put up what they think better.
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

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    I can imagine that is annoying!
    Mat Rous

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyaku
    As a senior of the ryu I have an ongoing thing with the wiki people about trying to print info about Musashi from a reliable source. Even if good info goes on there its not unusual for some anime fan to delete it and put up what they think better.
    Hehe, try and look up "Baiken" on wiki, as in the Kusarigama-user who got killed in a duel with Musashi, and you'll get an entry for one of those anime-character.
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

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    Actually, (this is my first post btw), Musashi was reputed for never having been taught under a Sensei, and his father Munisai, despite his reknown with the jutte never taught his son much, as Bennosuke (thought to have been his original name) wasn't very co-operative to say the least. IE the Shinto ryu practioner he defeated as a boy. He doesn't neglect to mention any of this in the Gorin No Sho, aka Book of Five Rings, and ironically he gives extremely little detail on his personal life, with an exception of his development with Martial affairs. His Nito-Ken style, with it's techniques does incorporate throwing the tanto, or wakizashi (whichever you may have) to startle your opponent and enable you to attack while his defense physically and both mentally is down for the short period. Whether they still teach this with Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu is beyond my knowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Fain
    Actually, (this is my first post btw), Musashi was reputed for never having been taught under a Sensei, and his father Munisai, despite his reknown with the jutte never taught his son much
    How do you know? Is Musashi ever quoted as saying that.

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Fain
    He doesn't neglect to mention any of this in the Gorin No Sho, aka Book of Five Rings, and ironically he gives extremely little detail on his personal life,
    He doesn't neglect writing about his life but ironically doesn't mention it...

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Fain
    His Nito-Ken style,
    His two sword sword style?
    Michael Kelly

    Ironically neither a Niten Ichi practitioner or in fact a ninja.

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