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Thread: Is Aikido ever used in the UFC?

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    Default Is Aikido ever used in the UFC?

    I've always wondered why I haven't seen more Aikido/Aikijutsu wristlocks used in the UFC.

    I mean, those guys are tough...no one doubts that, but how could a guy fight with a broken wrist or a torn shoulder from an armlock?

    Is that kind of stuff legal in those fights?
    Walt Janeski

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    Yep, wristlocks are fully legal. They are just *incredibly* difficult to apply.
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    Default Not really

    UFC RULES

    According to the official UFC rules, #8. Small joint manipulation. is considered a foul and is not allowed. Wrist locks along with finger locks are illegal.

    I have yet to see any coherent use of Aikido principals in UFC ever. This is not a surprise since the principals of Aikido does not align with those of UFC (including the participants) or any other competitive money for fighting principals.

    Having said that, there are those like Jaso DeLucia Aikidog who has fought professionally and used aikido principals in professional fighting.

    IMHO, aikido seeks to quickly restore harmony and is not about specific techniques. i.e. wrist locks Also, wristlocks are lot easier to pull off then a kimora or arm bar since it requires less body parts and strength.

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    Isn´t the rule about small joint manipulation targeted at fingers and toes?

    Since it´s legal to do anklelocks I have a hard time beliving that wristlocks are illegal.
    /Peter Gröndahl

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    Grondal

    I don't know.

    Do know that all things considered its pretty easy to escape all sorts of locks by breaking peoples fingers.

    Had it done to me once by accident at a wrestling camp back in HS.

    Since the rules of the UFC has as much to do with fans as they do with anything else, my guess is that "small joint" stuff is not much of a "crowd pleaser."
    Chris Thomas

    "While people are entitled to their illusions, they are not entitled to a limitless enjoyment of them and they are not entitled to impose them upon others."

    "Team Cynicism" MVP 2005-2006
    Currently on "Injured/Reserve" list due to a scathing Sarcasm pile-up.

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    Default Jason Costa?

    There is a NHB fighter out of this area named (I think) Jason Costa who is an aikido practitioner. He might even be a member here... he is quite good.

    NYAIKIDOKA,

    Welcome to E-budo. Please note that rules require your full name on every post.

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    Jigme
    Jigme Chobang Daniels
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    "Small joint manipulation" refers to fingers and toes.

    Wrist locks are legal, and believe it or not, they do occasionally get used - usually on the ground, and as transition moves into something else (I have never seen or heard of one leading to a submission in MMA).

    But generally, wrist locks don't get used because they are difficult to apply against a fast moving opponent covered in sweat; because, unlike a kimura or armbar, they don't give you much positional and body control; and because (much like leg locks) they usually leave you vulnerable to strikes.

    There's no doubt that a well applied, sudden kote-gaeshi (for example) could cause a lot of damage, it's just that it's a very low-percentage maneuver, and therefore not worth the risk of going for it and missing.

    Jason Delucia is the only pro fighter I know of who is also an aikidoka, although he doesn't fight much (his last fight was here in the UK in February, and that was his first fight in 2 years). As I haven't seen him since UFC1 or 2, I can't judge whether he uses aiki principles or not.
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    I figure that I use aikido all the time by not entering to compete in the UFC... Since I would surely get my a** kicked if I entered, I do not enter, thereby using the classic aikido principle of avoiding conflicts altogether...:bow:
    Okay, so that was a bit "non-serious"...sorry...
    -=Erik Linderson=-

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    Mr. Linderson, please remember to include your real name on all posts as you agreed to do when you joined E-Budo.

    The easiest way to do that is to add it as an automatic signature in your User Control Panel, with your "When the enemy approaches..." line.

    Thanks.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoteGaeshi
    I figure that I use aikido all the time by not entering to compete in the UFC... Since I would surely get my a** kicked if I entered, I do not enter, thereby using the classic aikido principle of avoiding conflicts altogether...:bow:
    Okay, so that was a bit "non-serious"...sorry...
    *applause*

    Both my sensei and several teachers of other martial arts I have meet have told me a real martial artist would not enter such competitions, with the exception of *possibly* boxing, muay thai, sumo, and similar arts. But for the majority of arts, those competition go against most philosophies.
    e-budo is anti-budo

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    Both my sensei and several teachers of other martial arts I have meet have told me a real martial artist would not enter such competitions, with the exception of *possibly* boxing, muay thai, sumo, and similar arts. But for the majority of arts, those competition go against most philosophies.
    I don't want to start a big argument but this is the rather modern view of martial arts as sanitized healthy recreations. Less than a hundred years ago, a "real" MA practitioner would be looking for ways to test themselves and their "art" in a competitive, combat dynamic. The fact is that most instructors are not fit enough, tough enough, or combat hardened enough to go at it. The older generation, such as Shioda, were fighters who matured into the philosophy, "somewhat", but they tested themselves for sure. Read Aikido Shugyo to see another side of things.

    P.S. I'm way too soft for anything like K1 or MMA
    Consider fully , act decisively
    Alec Corper

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    Both my sensei and several teachers of other martial arts I have meet have told me a real martial artist would not enter such competitions, with the exception of *possibly* boxing, muay thai, sumo, and similar arts. But for the majority of arts, those competition go against most philosophies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Itten
    I don't want to start a big argument but this is the rather modern view of martial arts as sanitized healthy recreations. ...The fact is that most instructors are not fit enough, tough enough, or combat hardened enough to go at it.
    Alec, that's the real truth. Edgar Kruyning, of the Netherlands, is one of the few examples I can give of a traditional martial artist really ready to go in the MMA world.

    And there's a real difference between guys who start tough and gradually soften through the years and guys who were never tough, never got tough and who think being strong and determined is some kind of poison to their "philosophy".

    So many go all on "philosophy," forgetting the tough lives of the people who propagated that philosophy. Ueshiba was a lumberjack and homesteader in wild Hokkaido for some years. He was just an incredibly powerful man who became spiritual in his fashion (or in Deguchi's fashion). If you attacked Ueshiba, he expected nothing less than a samurai attack. Nowadays, aikido teachers seem to think that "samurai" means someone who attacks with perfect form and slow enough to avoid but fast enough to throw themselves.

    Fortunately (since I, too, am far too soft for K1/MMA), we still have people like Edgar to teach the real martial ways with the real traditional spirit on a par with tough cage fighters. He has a strong background in Muay Thai and has taught with both Jon Bluming and Hiroo Mochizuki. That is one guy who doesn't mind a powerful attack. He will meet it with a smile.

    The point? I guess that, even if we are not fighting K1, we shouldn't forget that philosophy without power is only talk. And note that I didn't say "strength". If a philosophy is real it has real power and there is a real power in aikido and its philosophy. But you have to know the ground before you can know the sky.

    (Whew! That's a good way to get out of a pointless post...

    Wait! Did I post that or just think it?

    ...d'Oh!!!!)
    David Orange, Jr.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    "That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
    Lao Tzu

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    MMA competition are not prerequisites to "strength" and "power."

    Yes, I understand Gozo Shioda did go around "looking for trouble" but he matured from that.

    See the bushido/budo of Aikido is different from the original samurai budo/bushido even if the phsycial level moves may be based on samurai arts.

    Samurai would go around dueling and many, many lives were lost in what I consider wastes of human life. If you value martial skill over the lives of other human beings then before any philosphy of MA you are a bad person, which transcends all other value systems and ideas you may have.

    As for the UFC, I refer you to:
    http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33791

    That was for ninjustu/ninpo but Aikido can be said to have a similar thought (at least in the first step) that avoiding fights altogether is the first way.

    My sensei emphasized "the best martial art is good manners - techniques are a last resort."

    Somehow I don't see fighting for sport fitting into this equation.

    P.S. He was actually jumped for no real reason by two UFC guys a long time ago and he handled him pretty quickly. He was offered a contract but declined saying he will not use our martial art so that some promoter can make money off of it. I forgot who said this, but some old martial artist from China wrote "If you use our martial art to make money I hope you go crazy" or something like that. This was from some other art, I think tai chi, but I have to say I agree.
    e-budo is anti-budo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowriderx52
    P.S. He was actually jumped for no real reason by two UFC guys a long time ago and he handled him pretty quickly. He was offered a contract but declined saying he will not use our martial art so that some promoter can make money off of it.
    Your instructor was jumped by two pro fighters under contract to Zuffa? And then turned down the deal that Dana White offered him? Wow, he must be something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lowriderx52
    told me a real martial artist would not enter such competitions, with the exception of *possibly* boxing, muay thai, sumo, and similar arts.
    Why those exceptions? Why is competing in boxing OK, but not MMA?
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    I train both in Daito Ryu (Renshinkan school), and MMA. Aiki principle can be applied to MMA techniques. Wrist locks might be hard to apply as a submission, but they are great as transition techniques. The problem as I see it (and this is my own humble opinion), above and beyond the philosophical issues, is that most aikido schools do not train with "aliveness" or resistance. My daito ryu sensei emphasizes both in our daito ryu training. That is one thing that makes training in MMA such a valuable addition to a TMA. MMA, by its very nature, trains with aliveness and resistance. Judo, BJJ, Muay Thai, etc, practice their techniques at full speed with resisting opponents.
    Last edited by DarkThrone; 9th May 2006 at 01:00.
    Kelley Carter
    Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu Renshinkan

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