Lock Throws

[Keikai]

When training under Jan de Jong sensei we trained a number of throws that used as part of the throw a lock on a joint. An example is a Ude Garami (Arm Entanglement) moving into a Ippon Seio Nage (Shoulder Throw).

I believe that these are mainly done in the older styles of ju jutsu. Does your style use this type of throw? We classify a throw as those techniques where we lift both the attacker's feet off the ground rather that where the attacker jumps to avoid injury, as in a Shiho Nage.

[Flintstone]

I guess my style is so similar to yours. I know of several throws that use a lock as part of it, such as the one in your example, shiho koshi nage, various sankyo nage, jujigarami nage, etc... These are throws in the proper sense.

[MikeWilliams]

There are quite a lot of these in the WJJF/BJJA* curriculum - some more useful and practicable than others.

(* British Jujutsu)

[john_lord_b3]

We got plenty of such techniques. Start with elbowlock or necklock, then load the opponent to our hips/back/shoulders, then throw.

A particularly nasty one: Uke punch with right hand, avoid to the inside, parry the punching arm with left hand (atemi to his groin using hiza ate/knee smash while doing this), wrap right hand around opponent's neck (BJJers calls it "guillotine choke"). However, from the guillotine position, instead of scissor his waist and go to dojime (BJJers calls it "closed guard") as we usually do, we turn 360 degrees to the left, until we are back-to back with the opponent (our back are against his back). The back of his head will be over our right shoulder, our right hand pinning his chin. From there, do the Seoinage movement to snap his neck. Or you can also drop to one knee to snap his neck.

Confusing, I know. It's easier to demonstrate in person

[Flintstone]

Confusing, I know. It's easier to demonstrate in person

Gezz, don't want that technique demonstrated on me, thanks... Sounds really nasty.

[MikeWilliams]

A particularly nasty one: Uke punch with right hand, avoid to the inside, parry the punching arm with left hand (atemi to his groin using hiza ate/knee smash while doing this), wrap right hand around opponent's neck (BJJers calls it "guillotine choke"). However, from the guillotine position, ... turn 360 degrees to the left, until we are back-to back with the opponent (our back are against his back). The back of his head will be over our right shoulder, our right hand pinning his chin. From there, do the Seoinage movement to snap his neck.

I once saw that one done for real. Didn't "snap" the assailant's neck (he was thrown straight over, and the thrower didn't keep the neck lock on) but did severely freak him out - not to mention those of us who saw it.

For the record, the thrower was a (rightfully pissed-off at the time) BJJer.

[john_lord_b3]

Gezz, don't want that technique demonstrated on me, thanks... Sounds really nasty.

I never demonstrate it for real to anybody ever since I learned it long ago. It's too dangerous. In practice, we never complete the technique, we do it in slow motion, and we stop at the necklock (the throw is never shown).

[john_lord_b3]

I once saw that one done for real. Didn't "snap" the assailant's neck (he was thrown straight over, and the thrower didn't keep the neck lock on) but did severely freak him out - not to mention those of us who saw it.

For the record, the thrower was a (rightfully pissed-off at the time) BJJer.

Whoa.. he actually did it for real? But I am sure it was not a pretty sight! I hope nobody got hurt.

[MikeWilliams]

Thankfully, no-one got hurt! But the guy in question did leave shortly thereafter with his tail between his legs...

The throw was done opportunistically - don't ask me how exactly they ended up in that position, I *think* the recipient (I don't want to say uke, because this was in no way cooperative) was twisting one way to escape a potential guillotine and the thrower twisted the other way and saw an opportunity and threw. I don't think he had ever trained the technique - he was just pissed off, LOL.

It was pretty scary to watch!

[MikeWilliams]

Actually, this has reminded me of one of my favourite throws from the WJJF syllabus - which was a modified rice bale throw which ended in a spine lock.

Uke is bent over in front of you, and you have overhooked his right arm with your left. With your right arm, instead of reaching for his belt or wrapping his head guillotine style, your arm goes over the back of his neck and underhooks his left arm. You drop sideways in front of him and he flips over, landing in a crucifix position with your arms controlling his and your torso applying a neck crank to the back of his head/neck.

Nasty but fun. I think it may since have been removed from the syllabus for H&S reasons...

There was also a very flowery seioi nage variation which involved crossing both of uke's arms across each other and over your shoulder - effectively locking them both straight before dropping into the seoi nage. It alwas seemed a bit ridiculous to me - but just once (and more by accident than design) I pulled it off in randori.

[john_lord_b3]

There was also a very flowery seioi nage variation which involved crossing both of uke's arms across each other and over your shoulder - effectively locking them both straight before dropping into the seoi nage. It alwas seemed a bit ridiculous to me - but just once (and more by accident than design) I pulled it off in randori.

If not mistaken, that's called "Morote Gyakuzeoi" in KJJR syllabus. Very dangerous technique. Usually we stop the technique after we load the opponent on our back (we put him down gently).

[john_lord_b3]

Uke is bent over in front of you, and you have overhooked his right arm with your left. With your right arm, instead of reaching for his belt or wrapping his head guillotine style, your arm goes over the back of his neck and underhooks his left arm. You drop sideways in front of him and he flips over, landing in a crucifix position with your arms controlling his and your torso applying a neck crank to the back of his head/neck.

Nasty but fun. I think it may since have been removed from the syllabus for H&S reasons...

I was taught this technique in a combat Sambo class.. lethal!

[Flintstone]

Actually, this has reminded me of one of my favourite throws from the WJJF syllabus - which was a modified rice bale throw which ended in a spine lock.

Uke is bent over in front of you, and you have overhooked his right arm with your left. With your right arm, instead of reaching for his belt or wrapping his head guillotine style, your arm goes over the back of his neck and underhooks his left arm. You drop sideways in front of him and he flips over, landing in a crucifix position with your arms controlling his and your torso applying a neck crank to the back of his head/neck.

Nasty but fun. I think it may since have been removed from the syllabus for H&S reasons...

There was also a very flowery seioi nage variation which involved crossing both of uke's arms across each other and over your shoulder - effectively locking them both straight before dropping into the seoi nage. It alwas seemed a bit ridiculous to me - but just once (and more by accident than design) I pulled it off in randori.

Actually both these throws are in our syllabus... They are not as difficult as they can seem to be, and not that nasty.

We too stop the Morote Gyakuzeoi Nage before the actual throw. What we do is lock both elbows over tori's shoulder, and then give uke a "way out" through Tai Otoshi.

[john_lord_b3]

Actually both these throws are in our syllabus... They are not as difficult as they can seem to be, and not that nasty.

Since there are so many artes on your label (Nihon Taijutsu, Aiki Jujutsu, Goshin Kenpo etc), may I ask from which section those techniques came from?

Also, since you are in Aragon (Spain, right?) are you in any way connected to Mr. Roland Hernaez? If yes, that's cool

[Flintstone]

Since there are so many artes on your label (Nihon Taijutsu, Aiki Jujutsu, Goshin Kenpo etc), may I ask from which section those techniques came from?

These techniques are coming from Goshin Jujutsu. As far as I know, this is the name given to our study of WJJF. Anyone interested can take a look at http://www.nihonkobudoaragon.com/goshin%20jujutsu.html , but it's only in Spanish at the moment.

Also, since you are in Aragon (Spain, right?) are you in any way connected to Mr. Roland Hernaez? If yes, that's cool

That's right. Our group is affiliated with Roland Hernaez Sensei for Nihon Taijutsu practice. He is an incredible source of knowledge regarding Jujutsu and Aikijujutsu, Mochizuki Minoru Sensei style.