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Thread: Anatomy of a real fight

  1. #1
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    Default Anatomy of a real fight

    Ok, so we've been hit with questions of late from people asking about X-kans ability to deal with MMA and such. Let's analyze something here. What is combat and what is a real fight?

    Now there are many of you on here who have been in real combat situations and I'd love it if you each chimed in with some responses, and even more so if certain others chimed in with theirs. So I've prepared a set of links for each of you to examine and will add to it as we go on. They are linked from youtube so let's see what we have in store first. This first clip is of a guy who is trained in some sort of Chinese martial art I would assume. Let's see if he knocks out the wannabe gangsta and saves the day.

    Click.

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    Default 1 versus 2, they messed with the wrong guy

    Click here.

    This one is short but very cool I thought. It shows two guys who are apparently beat down by one dude. I think, according to someone who led me to it that he was harrassed by them and he took it into his own hands.

    And here is another of my personal favorites, a great and realistic look at the ura shuto in action.

    Click here to see Mr. Pimp go down.

    BJJ in action on the beach, though footage not to clear. Worth a look.

    So there's three new ones to look at as well. Any comments?

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    Default MMA guy triumphs

    Here's a good example of how realistic some martial arts are and aren't.

    Click.

    So about that internal energy?

    And here's another one: click.

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    Default Grappling fights

    Being a former grappling practitoner I can attest to the ability of many seasoned grapplers. Here for you to examine are fights involving BJJ and several other arts.


    BJJ Versus Kempo

    BJJ Versus Hapkido

    BJJ Brown Belt versus Karate Brown Belt

    BJJ Versus JKD/San Shou

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    Quote Originally Posted by drizzt777
    Click here.

    This one is short but very cool I thought. It shows two guys who are apparently beat down by one dude. I think, according to someone who led me to it that he was harrassed by them and he took it into his own hands.

    And here is another of my personal favorites, a great and realistic look at the ura shuto in action.

    Click here to see Mr. Pimp go down.

    BJJ in action on the beach, though footage not to clear. Worth a look.

    So there's three new ones to look at as well. Any comments?
    I've seen these clips before. Good on the defendees for having a go but in both instances if the agressors had decided to escalate the incident to an armed attack, particularly with a firearm, this would not have been the end of the matter. The first two attackers were so dopey we aren't even that sure that they were intent on violence and the defendee is too reliant on their lack of wherewithall. He doesn't keep both of them in his line of vision or keep himself between them and his girlfriend. And they end up following him, relatively unharmed and with a much better idea of what they are dealing with. Not good.

    In Clip 2, I get the impression that these people are all local to the area. I'd like to know what has happened since this incident? Good strike though, much more effective than the wild punches in clip 1. At least the guy was out cold long enough for the good guys (presuming they were the good guys) to exit the scene. Again though, we don't know what led up to the incident. Beating up a pimp or drug dealer that will be back on the streets the next day is hardly worth the bother. Anyone with a ninjutsu background should look to intelligence gathering if they have unsavoury individuals like this in their neighbourhood because that is the only thing that will get them off the streets.
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drizzt777
    Being a former grappling practitoner I can attest to the ability of many seasoned grapplers. Here for you to examine are fights involving BJJ and several other arts.


    BJJ Versus Kempo

    BJJ Versus Hapkido

    BJJ Brown Belt versus Karate Brown Belt

    BJJ Versus JKD/San Shou
    I know they are graded practioners in each art but they never seem to be 'all that'. Mainly what used to be called 'Paper Tigers' in the early UFC events.

    But don't forget that some relatively unknown non-gapplers left the likes of Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock unable to continue due to injury in some of these early contests.

    I would like to see people that were once highly regarded e.g. Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, Benny Urquidez to name a few, up against BJJ practioners although for a fair appraisal it should be BJJ practitioners of a similar age.

    And I'm sure old Helio would step up against anyone's choice of grandmaster but it'll never happen.
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    Chuck norris is A Is a Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu under the Machado Brothers.
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001569/bio

    http://theultima.com/Jiujitsu.html

    ''Chuck Norris brought the first Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu seminar to the U.S. in 1988. Mr. Norris had just returned from a trip to Brazil where he trained with Rickson Gracie and Rickson’s father Helio Gracie, the Grand Master of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Mr. Norris was so impressed with their style and technique that he invited them to conduct a seminar in Las Vegas for his Karate Black Belts. This seminar brought about an enormous amount of publicity and thanks to Mr. Norris, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu found its place in the United States. Charles Allen was one of the Black Belts present who attended these seminars.''
    Paul Greaves
    ''Skill is aquired via sweat equity''

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    Hello all

    Chinese wu shu chap; The important thing is, that he won the fight. Personally, I've been in situations where I've done "odd movements" on purpose to put my opponent off. When he broke into his stance, some of his footwork looked a touch wobbly, but you can hear some of the people there laughing, and his opponent looked incredulous and unsure in his movements. As we can see though, the stance work on the whole broke down when the fists started swinging. It went standard thoroughfare street brawl from there on Good punch, and fair play to the winner

    With regards to the other guy; First off, fair play to him for exploding straight away into them, but as someone else mentioned earlier, he wasn't doing a very good job of protecting his lady friend. Luckily for him they were just a bunch of scum who were easily dazzled. However, dazzled doesn't equate to being put out of the fight, which he should have ensured, because at the end of the video they proceeded to follow him. Any translations on what they're saying?

    Regards,

    Geoffrey Shanks

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    Something along the lines of: "Damn, we should have just shot them and took her purse in the first place."

    I am kidding, but he really should have taken them out or not quit til' he sent them running. Turning their backs and walking away literally was not very intelligent.

    But at least he immediately started dropping bombs on them as they assaulted his companion.
    Chris S. Aitken
    Somewhere in the Bujinkan

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    Nice comments and thoughts guys, keep em coming!

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    I watched the first video. I didn't watch the others but I've seen a lot of them if not most on youtube. In most of these situations do you know what I see? I see opportunities for one or both parties to walk away. I maintain that when two adults have a physical confrontation, homicide is always a possibility. Why take the chance?
    Greg Caplinger
    Gekka Dojo
    GWBNF/KJJR

    "Shin-gi-tai-ichi"

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    The art doesnt really matter, what matters is how the person deals with the build up and hopefull deescalation to the fight, and if pressed, how committed he is to finishing it quickly.

    It doesnt matter if art x is the best in the world if the person hasnt been prepared in some way for the reality of a street encounter.
    Jim Boone

    Flick Lives!

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    http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?ne...%3D7gWYrX0apNY


    I think there is a strong possibility this was staged...it don't look right at all.
    "Fear, not compassion, restrains the wicked."

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    ya know, maybe they are all fake..but the more random they look, the more real. But what you have to take into account is that there is obviously somebody filming the event. These would be best used as evidence in court of a crime, not for entertainment.

    I'd bet that most of the camera angles and clarity of the altercation means that most of them are arranged and/or directed... Its nothing new.

    A few years back here in my county a bunch of teens got arrested for assaulting a younger obese kid and filming it, then mass producing it and putting it on the internet.

    So there is still quite a fair margin that some of these fight films are very real, but take them with a grain of salt.
    Chris S. Aitken
    Somewhere in the Bujinkan

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    Default Real Fights

    Ok I will talk about my own personal experience in dealing with real fights against real people and also my experience in grapping with BJJ guys who were highly experienced 7 plus years...blackbelts underneath Carlos Machado.

    I have trained in the Genbukan after a number of years and a brief hiatus when I started LAW enforcement. A brief synopsis of what I learned is that our techniques do work but you have to learn to apply the techniques in your situation. What I mean by that is most people dont attack with a straight punch it is usually a wild swing with no balance or aim. You have to loosen up your opponent and then take what you are given. Prime example lets say you wish to arrest a drunk....Is it necessary to beat him to a pulp nooooo but what you will notice is a certain amount of pain resistance most drunk people have so you can actually break bones on a drunk and they dont feel it till later when they are riding in the police car crying telling you they are sorry and they deserved it. Now the difference in learning an arm bar and applying the arm bar come into play here. In the dojo we are learning the technique the proper way to execute I can remember you feel pain in the dojo but its nicely applied to prevent injury. In the street you are not so nice...The main difference I had to learn was to apply the technique with adequate force initially. Which leads to the BJJ grapplers. They are working with full resistance immediately (which leads to lots of injuries) I have known guys who have taken several months off due to training injuries (strained neck muscles, bad backs, rotator cuff injuries etc).

    When I grappled several of the BJJ guys I noticed initially of course the total lost feeling of being on the ground but we started this way so I was at an immediate disadvantage. After a few matches which I was tapped I got comfortable with the whole idea of "grappling" I was able to tap several individuals using wrist locks, shoulder pins etc...their defense was too good for chokes. If your question is which is better depends on what you like. For me it was a personal endeavor sort of a challenge to myself. I came away with the answers I was looking for, but if you think grappling is better because you cant apply your techniques then you should train more to find why you are missing opportunities to apply your technique. If a wrist technique works standing up it works on the ground..trust me I've done it...oni kudaki or omo plata I believe as the BJJERS call it...still works...or maybe its key lock..cant remember but anyway. Go to a bjj school and train most of the guys I trained with were very nice individuals and enjoyed learning something new from me as well. Anyway its always nice to go try your defense out. You should know an arm bar is coming if they stretch your arm out... just my 2 cents from my personal experience not some you tube link from people we dont know...


    Greg Weathers
    Fuga Dojo Cho
    Police Defensive Tactics Instructor

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