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Thread: KATA: Gojushiho

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    This thread is dedicated to the research and study of the theoretical and practical applications of the kata Gojushiho in its various derivations throughout the Okinawan karate ryuha.

    Discussion of Japanese and Western interpretations of this kata are welcome as are discussions of the influence of Chinese martial arts on the origin/development of this kata. Practitioners of all levels and backgrounds are welcome to post. Though the free sharing of ideas, perhaps we can all learn a bit more about the kata.

    Please avoid statements like "My teacher, XYZ Sensei, knew the one, true Kata X ... all else is bunk." or the Saturday cinema classic "My kungfu is better than yours". Even if you are right .. it is rude and most likely something your teacher would rather you did not say anyway. All E-budo rules apply.

    Enjoy!
    Doug Daulton

  2. #2
    kusanku Guest

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    Gojushiho, an advanced kata, contains an entire system of udundi(palace hand) self defense within it. An undoubted Shaolin form, its aiki like throwing and locking techniques with effective point attacks are unmistakeably high level.

    Very subtle power in this kata.

    Kusanku

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    Default Palace hand within Gojushiho

    Can you elaborate a little on the palace hand techniques?

    Thanks
    Dr. John Evans
    Shoshinkan Kenkyukai
    Towson, Maryland

  4. #4
    kusanku Guest

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    Old Ronin, New Member asks:' Could you please elaborate a little on the Palace hand techniques?"

    Certainly. I have left my posts on the kata theads deliberately open ended, and put them up because I am the one who asked Doug if we could go this route.

    Since he kindly acceded, I tried to help open the ball by putting a little bit, only, on each kata up.

    Now, palace hand techniques are indoor techniques, for use inside the castles,by the guards, etc. Thats strictly speaking.

    The Gojushiho kata contains the underying principles of unbalancing using body torque, the drunken or falling steps of the Phoenix modes, and the locking and point strikes to finish off the attacker if necessary.

    If you are familiar with the Gojushiho used in Matsubayashi Ryu,which is Iju Gojushiho, sho version, and not the Yabu or Gojushiho Dai, which is related, you will note that the very first thing trained is out of a natural or hachiji dachi stance the yoi of pinan, just minding ones own business.As in the arts such as jiujitsu and tenjin shin'yo ryu, that are the forerunners of the aiki arts.

    Also used in modern judo.Now from the natural stance we move suddenly into an irimi movement, right side of opponent, with a droppng press deflection of an atack with a simultaneous atemi with backfist looking a lot like a metsubushi( smashing the eyes, aimed at the pont atop the bridge of nose between the eyes.

    So first move is atemi with irimi and suppresion.Smack.Do this right and maybe you need no more.You drop the fellow like a bag of rags.

    But just in case you don't.Next move draws the fist on top in and under( advanced version here)the other hand into a te uke formation, meaning a wristlock.Well, you just bashed him, now you lock him,turn out his shoulder with a fukaku den,or bolt lock,as the daito ryu might say,ikkyo as Aikido says,take him up to the left at a forty five,and it looks like maybe now a strike to the heart one point.

    Repeat technique on other side to practice, then we have a double cover wing formation with a torite uke, double punch low snap kick and punch, repeat on other side.So you covr, grb and control and then a sequence of four strikes or a neck twist with atemi and finishing strike, depending.

    Now we face forward forty five in to center embusen with what appears to the uninitiated to be a simple elbow strike, but it doesn't have to be.It can be a wrapping technique on an arm, wrist or elbw, now we turn one eighty and lock that joint good, ad it goes on from there.

    Later we have the drunken falls which are actually a form of sokumen irimi nage, and so on and so forth, and s the kata progresses the waza become more and more effective ie lethal, until at the end you are killing the opponent in several final ways.

    Of interest and repeated twice in the kata are the up and down palm strikes concealing thum knuckle strike topoints at rib and jaw or neck, which are pure atemi waza.

    These are techniques similar to if not identical with those used in the udundi waza of japan and I think also of Okinawa.

    What people think to be spear hands in the kata can be, of course, but also can be sliding palm strikes and or concealed thumb strikes to nerves and points aiding in the execution of throws, locks and holds.

    The key in Gojushiho is concealment, those witnessing the empty hand performance of the kata are not meant to see what is happening. The stepping and kicking and weird looking hand waza in this form are definitely mysterious unless you once see them done with a partner, then one sees what they are.If they are done slowly, that is.

    The turns represent throws, the spear hands are palm strikes concealing thumb knuckle strikes and thumb pokes,the combos are kyusho strikes, and also combntion holds, locks and throws with finishing strikes shown.

    A very advanced kata usually taught at sandan for fourth dan, Gojushiho, original name ueseishi, s a Chinese form containing much chin na( torite or toide) and Tien Hsueh( kyuso jutsu), forming the basis of the Palace Hand art of some family in Okinawa.

    This kata has even been identified by some in the the Ueshiro lineage of Shorin ryu as possibly the Anshin No Maekata( Dancing Kata of the Lords) core form of the Ti art.This I don't know if is true or not, but that the kata contains the foundations of the nasty inside techniques used to control and dispatch opponents indoors, I have no doubt.

    I note your interests and await interesting information from your perspective as well.

    I do assure you that my knowledge of this stuff from the kata is not theoretical alone and that these techniques are quite effective.

    That I have refrained from describing on here the more lethal is due to restraint and wisdom, I don't want any young folks breaking each others necks or destroying their own lives and others' thru misuse or even misguided practice.Yet the means of doing these things are in this kata, possibly one reason that its practice is restricted to the higher levels of the dan ranks.

    So if I sometimes seem a bit vague, it's on purpose.:-)

    Kusanku




  5. #5
    kusanku Guest

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    But they are double blocks.the crne cover and torite uke is a double block.

    Unless you mean the upward fist strikes.The ones like in Passai.

    Those aren't blocks at all.

    Those are grab and strike or double strikes.

    Who would block what attack with two forty five degree jodan uke?

    As for where thet srikes are targeted- that depends on the realtive heights f you and opponent ad what stance you are in and what stance if any he is in.

    Experiment and you will find them.

    The Yabu Ueseishi( Gojushiho, done in Okinawan Kenpo and Shorinji ryu, is different.Those use an upward double uppercut and double down strikes.

    Different apps, different targest and they can block and strike simultaneously.

    Incidentlly, anyone ever hear how Shotokan reversed the Sho and Dai of Gojushiho? One of their best guys is doing one on national TV, and at the end he hollers out, Gojushiho Sho! for Dai, or Dai for sho, one.

    There's dead silence, and then the big guns renamed the kata.

    True story, or so I've been told.

    So anyway, diffeent apps for different versions , and I don't know how Iju/Iiju/is spelled, either.

    Kusanku

  6. #6
    kusanku Guest

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    But they are double blocks.the crane wing or double cover and torite uke is a double block.

    Unless you mean the upward fist strikes.The ones like in Passai.

    Those aren't blocks at all.

    Those are grab and strike or double strikes.

    Who would block what attack with two forty five degree jodan uke?

    As for where those strikes are targeted- that depends on the relative heights of you and opponent and what stance you are in and what stance if any he is in.

    Experiment and you will find them.

    The Yabu Ueseishi( Gojushiho, done in Okinawan Kenpo and Shorinji ryu), is different.Those use an upward double uppercut and double down strikes.

    Different apps, different targets and they can block and strike simultaneously.

    Incidentally, anyone ever hear how Shotokan reversed the Sho and Dai of Gojushiho? One of their best guys is doing one on national TV, and at the end he hollers out, Gojushiho Sho! for Dai, or Dai for sho, one.

    There's dead silence, and then the big guns renamed the kata.

    True story, or so I've been told.

    So anyway, different apps for different versions , and I don't know how Iju/Iiju/is spelled, either.

    Kusanku

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    Arrow Gojushiho - (Moved by moderator)

    Originally posted by Earl Rhoads on 01-25-2001 at 04:03 PM

    I would like to know if anyone knows who taught Nagamine Shoshin Gojushiho? How many versions of Gojushiho exist?I would also like to know if the so called "drunken monkey" footwork is unique to Matsubayashi-Ryu. Can anyone recommend a written source for such info other than John Sells' "Unante" or Pat McCarthy's "Bubishi."
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    [Edited by Doug Daulton on 01-28-2001 at 01:57 PM]

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    Post RE: Gojushiho - (Moved by moderator)

    Originally posted by Jari Virta on 01-27-2001 at 01:12 AM
    Originally posted by Earl Rhoads
    I would like to know if anyone knows who taught Nagamine Shoshin Gojushiho? How many versions of Gojushiho exist?I would also like to know if the so called "drunken monkey" footwork is unique to Matsubayashi-Ryu. Can anyone recommend a written source for such info other than John Sells' "Unante" or Pat McCarthy's "Bubishi."
    The drunk movements are in Seibukan Shorin-Ryu too (Sukunaihayashi-line). I'm not sure how closely related it is to Matsubayashi-Ryu.
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    We did Gojushiho Dai the other day as a supliment to shuto uke practice.
    My teacher said regarding the tate-shuto choku tsuki combination midway through the kata that some Okinawan versions do both blocks with the left hand and the punches with the right like we (JKA) do, while others do both sides (i.e. left tate-shuto and right choku tsuki, then right tate-shuto and left choku tsuki)


    Which way does your group practice?
    (Not interested in which is "correct". Just want to know which lineages practice which version.)
    Andrew Smallacombe

    Aikido Kenshinkai

    JKA Tokorozawa

    Now trotting over a bridge near you!

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