KATA: Passai

[Doug Daulton]

This thread is dedicated to the research and study of the theoretical and practical applications of the kata Passai in its various derivations throughout the Okinawan karate ryuha.

Discussion of Japanese and Western interpretations of this kata are welcome as are discussions of the influence of Chinese martial arts on the origin/development of this kata. Practitioners of all levels and backgrounds are welcome to post. Through the free sharing of ideas, perhaps we can all learn a bit more about the kata.

Please avoid statements like "My teacher, XYZ Sensei, knew the one, true Kata X ... all else is bunk." or the Saturday cinema classic "My kungfu is better than yours". Even if you are right .. it is rude and most likely something your teacher would rather you did not say anyway. All E-budo rules apply.

Enjoy!

_______________________
Doug Daulton

[Edited by Doug Daulton on 01-17-2001 at 01:17 PM]

[kusanku]

Passai, first of the master or advanced kata of Matsubayashi-ryu Shorinryu,, is a complete fighting form.Its thesis in Kyan No Passai, is an anti-torite counterlock and strike and throw kata, with many vital attacks in it.

Featuring the knife hand,this Passai is a fine kata involving very subtle weight shifts, shin and leg blocking, trapping and slicing and striking and poking, with turning and side kick used to facilitate twisting throws, and many one shot take out strikes.

The first and simplest of the advanced kata, Passai nevertheless requires much careful practice and study.

Passai contains, as do the other three advanced kata of Matsubayashi ryu Shorin ryu, waza seen in no other kata.

Many best regards to all,
Kusanku



[Edited by kusanku on 01-15-2001 at 08:15 PM]

[Jari Virta]

Originally posted by Doug Daulton
This thread is dedicated to the research and study of the theoretical and practical applications of the kata Passai in its various derivations throughout the Okinawan karate ryuha.

I was told that the techniques in this kata may have been created for fighting in the dark (especially the "seeking/searching hands" techniques), any opinions?

[Jari Virta]

Originally posted by Jim Kass
I do not think Passai is known for “searching hand” or night fighting techniques. You may be confusing this kata with the Kusanku kata

I am a bit confused. I am referring to the Shorin Ryu and here is what I found; Go to the website at

http://personal.inet.fi/yhdistys/seibukan/

It is an official Seibukan Shorin Ryu school (you can find it from http://www.seibukan.org too if you check out the dojos in Finland) so it should be authentic. The site is in finnish, but just do as I instruct. First click 'Kata' on the left. Then just click 'in english' and read on until the heading 'Passai'. There you'll find out what I'm talking about!

[Joe Swift]

Hello all,

Great stuff, this Passai. Here's what I have been able to dig up in the past few years.

1. Concerning the Name/Origins of Passai

First of all, it is necessary to clear some things up about the meaning of Passai. Many state that the kata name means something along the lines of ?gto penetrate a fortress?h or some other such definition. It is important to realize, however, that such definitions come from so-called ateji, which is the use of Sino-Japanese ideograms (kanji) to preserve the pronunciation of a foreign word and to give it some semblance of meaning. In 1935, Funakoshi Gichin wrote in his Karatedo Kyohan that he had changed the old Sino-Okinawan kata names to nomenclature that would be more palatable to the Japanese, and it is here that we see the first written record of Passai (Bassai in Japanese) defined as "penetrating a fortress." Three years later, Mabuni Kenwa and Nakasone Genwa, in Kobo Kenpo Karatedo Nyumon, blatantly state their use of ateji for kata names. Mabuni, although using different kanji than Funakoshi, expressed basically the same meaning.

Okinawan karate researcher Kinjo Akio, feels that the Passai kata is related to Leopard and Lion boxing forms. He feels that the first step in the kata, where one steps in, twists the body sideways and performs a strong strike/block with the closed fist is representative of Leopard boxing, whereas the use of the open hand and the stomping actions are more representative of Lion boxing. The name itself, Kinjo holds, actually means ?gLeopard-Lion,?h which would be pronounced Baoshi in Mandarin, Baassai in Fuzhou dialect and Pausai in Quanzhou dialect.

Other theories as to the meaning of the name Passai include "eight fortresses." Noted Okinawan karate historian Hokama Tetsuhiro has even hypothesized that it might represent a personal name. Murakami Katsumi, a direct student of such luminaries as Chibana Choshin (Shorinryu), Inoue Motokatsu (Ryukyu Kobujutsu), Kyoda Juhatsu (To'onryu) and many others, calls upon his knowledge of Chinese martial arts when searching for the possible roots of Passai. He says that some parts remind him of the Wuxing Quan (Five Elements Fist) form of Xingyi Quan.

2. Versions/Evolution

Of the Okinawan versions of Passai, a clear evolutionary link can be seen from the Matsumura no Passai to the Oyadomari no Passai and then onto the Passai Dai of Itosu. Out of these, the Matsumura version seems to have retained an essentially Chinese flavour, whereas the Oyadomari version is a more "Okinawanized" form, which was further modified by Itosu into the uniquely Okinawan modern version seen today.

Of the two Passai in Itosu's toudi, the Passai Dai is very similar to the Ishimine no Passai, believed to be passed down by Bushi Ishimine. The Sho version of Itosu's Passai is often described as being utilized against a staff wielding opponent, but Murakami believes that the principles found in this kata were utilized quite a bit in actual (unarmed) confrontations.

3. On Passai in Chibana Lineage Shorinryu

Itosu Anko taught 2 versions of Passai in his physical education version of "toudi" and these were designated as Dai and Sho.

Chibana Choshin was a direct student of Itosu, and also taught a Passai Dai and Sho.

However, these are different. What seems to have happened, is that Chibana had learned a third version of Passai from his relative Bushi Tawada, who was a direct student of Matsumura Sokon. According to direct Chibana student Murakami Katsumi, when Chibana showed this version (sometimes called the Tawada-ha Matsumura no Passai) to Itosu. Itosu had told him that he had never seen anyone perform that particular kata as well as Chibana, and that he should preserve it.

So what had happened, is that Chibana kept this Passai and called it Passai Dai, and relagated Itosu's Passai Dai to the position of Passai Sho. This left the "other" Passai Sho in limbo...

The "other Passai Sho" is none other than the so-called "Koryu Passai" or "Passai Gwa" that is practiced in some Chibana lineage sects of Shorin. I think that Miyahira had learned this particular version from Gusukuma Shinpan (another direct Itosu student) and this is where the Gusukuma lineage came into being in that tradition.

This is probably as clear as MUD, but I hope you can wade through it! Maybe the following will help:

Thanks,

[kusanku]

Mr. Roussselot- As requested I have edited my post on Passai,and clarified a number of points, and I trust that it will satisfy and answer your many objections.

As for the spelling, I do apologize the wireless keyboard I am obliged to use does drop lettters in transmission, incessantly, and is a cause of myuch annoyance to me and, apparently, to yourself as well.

As for my many 'claims';I was a Vietnamense, Hanoi Dialect Linguist in the US Air Force in 1974-1975, at the tail end of the Vietnam War.

If you or anyone else may doubt this, I will be happy to demonstrate its truth.

Now, as my clarified post states, my reference to Passai, Kyan No Passai, the Matsubayashi ryu Shorin ryu kata, as the first of the master or advanced kata, is not a refeence to ancient karate or Kempo, but to the Matsubayashi ryu system practiced and systematized by Shoshin Nagamine,whose student James Wax taught my teacher who taught me.Myteacher was Richard Burch of Piqua , Ohio, who also was a student of Frank Grant, a student of Nagamine-San and of Ueshiro Ansei Sensei.

Though I am a twenty-eight year , now almost twenty-nine year, practitioner of Shorin ryu, I have and claim no rank in that art, nor can you find anywhere or anyone who would truthfully say that I do or have.My skill level in it however I leave to others familiar with that art, to judge.

Are there any more claims of mine you would like to dispute, Sir?

I would also like to explain for your benefit since we were all getting on famously until you showed up, and I believe you said you weren't coming back here but here you are again:-),that Mr. Doug Daulton, the Moderator of this Forum, graciously acceded to my request to do a separate thread on each Shorin Ryu kata, and that my comments on these threeads basically refer to this style's versions of these kata.

And to their placement in this modern system of kata, one of whose antecedents was however, Choki Motob, one of Mr. Nagamine's teachers.

The fact that several high ranking exponents of Shorin ryu and some others are taking part in these discussions and none has yet found fault with me, should indicate that maybe, just maybe, I might know what I am talking about.

M. Daulton is a ranked yudansha inn the system I am speaking on here, and I presume he will take me to task if I screw up really bad in my exposition.

However, to answer your points, one by one:

'Mr. Vengel's statement cannot be true(master or advanced kata)'

It is true of the modern systems of karate , not of the ancient systems.
Basic katas were invented such as the Pinan and later the Fukyu gata, first two of Mr. Nagamine's system- he invented the first and Miyagi Chojun invented the second.

Originally the foundation forms of Shorin ryu, the older system invented by Matsumura Sokon, had kata such as seisan, Naihanchi and so on, as foundation forms.

That old masters only knew one or two katas is in fact quite true.Some however, like Matsumura and Itosu, knew many katas, Kyan apparently knew at least nine unarmed and a couple kobujutsu,and although Motobu himself learned initially the three Naihanchi and Tomari Passai from Matsumora Kosaku,does not stop the fact that later in life, he learned manymore, and taught them all.His style and students reside in Japan Joe Swift can get you in touch with them if you wish to verify the fact that they teach many kata.

Mr. Nagamine's system contains eighteen unarmed kata in its syllabus. I know all eighteen of them.Also I know applications.They may not be the ones you know because these are different katas done, according to my Kempo Sensei to whom I showed them according to a different theory, one which made him narrow his eyes because it is a working theory as well.:-)

Shorin ryu is an effective style of Okinawan karate, no less so than others we may both be familiar with in differing degree.:-)

'there is no such thing as an advanced kata or a beginner kata, they are all advanced kata.'

True enough statement in isolation, but you fail to consider the context of the eighteenthreads on Okinawn kata we are involved in here, I was commenting on the place of each kata in the Matsubayashi ryu syllabus.

So in context, yes, there are:

Basic Shorin ryu kata of Matsubayashi ryu:1.Fukyu Gata Ichi
2.Fukyu Gata Ni

Second group of basic kata:Pinan1-5

Third group of basic kata:Naihanchi One-Three

Intermediate Kata: Ananku
Wankan
Rohai
Wanshu

Advanced Kata
Passai
Gojushiho
Chinto
Yara Kusanku

This is in the context of the Matsubayashi ryu Shorin ryu system, as adumbrated by Nagamine Shoshin, and as related to the ranks you learn the kata at.

The kata are in fact basic, intermediate and advanced in the context of one's training in this particular system, in others ones that are basic there may be advanced .

The kata may be taught n whatever order desired, but I find this order to be exceptonally logical and of ascending complexity for the most part.

No doubt that is why Master Nagamine ordered them so.

'Only a person with limited understanding of them separates them into advanced and beginner kata.'

Well, Master Nagmine is passed on, so he can not speak for himself here, but his son is alive, perhaps you could tell him that he and his father had limited understanding of the kata.:-)

'Some kata can be learned quicker than others.'

Yes, and those kata are often seen as the basic kata of a system.Makes sense to me.

'However, after practicing Naihanchi Shodan, considered to be the 'beginner's' kata in the Japanese styles...'

What Japnese style of Karate teaches Naihanchi shodan as the beginner's kata?Most teach Heain or Taikyoku, none that I know teach Naihanchi as the first.Okinawn Kenpo does, so do some not allShorin styles, but Shotokan starts with Heian.Next I suppose you will want to argue Shotokan with me? Let me know so I can nootify the Shotokan world that an expert on their style is taking the field, that being you.I'm sure Bob Mcmahon, and others, will love that.

'I am stilllearning new things...'

Robert, if you had taken the trouble to read before you post, my posts on the Naihanchi thread, you would see that I say naihanchi kata is all you ever need, period. I even disagreed with some who said you needed more.

You and I agree on this one.But you just made yourself look as bad as you tired to make me look, and I wish you'd just cool it, you're making a fool of yourself.

'Most katas contain all this.'

Yes they do, but in Passai, it is, like in Naihanchi, very clearly an anti grappling emphasis. even Funakoshi said so.here is, like in Naihanchi, a continuous shifting of position, a reverse and regrab and lock and throw type movement facilitated by the footwork, which is particularly subtle and particularly well suited for actual use as is, unlike the Naihanchi kata where the applications footwork must of needs not involve facing someone in naihanchi dachi.

'In Naihanchi kata, you can find defense from the front, side, back and even ground techniues, all from a kata that takes only thirty seconds to perform.'

You really really should go back and read my Naihanchi post Robert, that's old news, I already said all that and so did some others.

As for thirty seconds to do Naihanchi, are you doig that exhibition speed, because at combat speed it takes a whole lot less time than that to do Naihanchi Shodan No Kata.Unless you are slow or something.

'How can you be so sure?(that passai contains waza seen in no other kata) Do you know all the kata there are to know?"

In Matsubayashi ryu, I do, all eighteen of the system's syllabus of empty hand kata.Now, I also know that in Okinawa they teach some not on the syllabus, and I do know a total of about sixty-four Okinawan and Japanese kata,some better than others to be sure.But aain, the context of mystatement is'in Matsubayashi ryu', and this was understood by those who came in at the beginning of the thread.

Again, you show me whom you have never met, hostility.And to think we had the same teacher of our teachers.You ought to learn what courtesy is.

Then you wuote someone who is not me, saying Passai or Kusanku is a 'night fighting kata.'

I never said that, do you know how to read signatures on posts?Apparently you do not, from the experience on the SRSI Journal Thread when you accused me of writing the article Elmar Schmeisser, Sixth Dan Shotokan, did on Aikido.

Get a clue here, fellow, you have some serious insecurity issues and ego problems, and maybe dyslexia as well.

If you're going to quote what I said, misspellings and all, at least quote me.Not Jim Kass and others.

Then you Quote someone else, saying the kata has blocks and counters, and say, umm, shouldn't all kata have thse characteristics?'

Yes, I believe they do, but Sir, youneed to answer the ones who actually posted those things, not me who did not say them.

Then you say Joe Swift has done his homework , which in fact he has, meybe you noticed that Joe is in fact on the board of the SRSI Journal.

Tell you what; maybe you should do yours before posting nonsense to and about me again.

Kusanku

[kusanku]

Jim shows Robert to himself.

Enlightenment is the mirror of one's self.'

Now That was funny.

ROTFL!

John

[Doug Daulton]

Originally posted by kusanku ... I would also like to explain for your benefit ... that Mr. Doug Daulton, the Moderator of this Forum, graciously acceded to my request to do a separate thread on each Shorin Ryu kata, and that my comments on these threads basically refer to this style's versions of these kata.

And to their placement in this modern system of kata, one of whose antecedents was however, Choki Motobu, one of Mr. Nagamine's teachers. ... M. Daulton is a ranked yudansha inn the system I am speaking on here, and I presume he will take me to task if I screw up really bad in my exposition.

Originally posted by Jim Kass ... I think you may have taken a few things out of context?

This would be very easy to do if you only looked at this thread, Mr. Vengel has expressed VERY CLEARLY what the intent was and why Mr. Daulton started breaking out every kata of a Shorin Ryu system. (see the Naihanchi thread as this one started this process).

Originally posted by Robert Rousselot ... I posted my opinion because I thought someone might like to hear another side to it.............I guess not.

Messrs. Vengel, Kass and Rousselot:

Each of you has a valuable point of view which deserves a forum. So let's keep things positive. As forum moderator, I'd like to offer a few points of direction/clarification ...

1. RE: The threads titled ... KATA: (insert name)
While the initial threads do, with the exception of Sanchin, reference the kata found within Matsubayashi Shorin-ryu; it was and is not my intention for these forums to focus on Shorin-ryu in general or Matsubayashi-ryu in specific. Quite the contrary, I would very much like to see threads for the many kata found in the other schools across Okinawa.

That said, as mentioned my Messrs. Kass and Vengel, I can now see where comments would seem to be directed to this specific subset of kata (Matsubayashi-ryu). For the sake of clarity in the future, I request statements regarding "all" of anything be more specific. IE .. "all Okinawan kata" or "all Matsubayashi-ryu kata".

I also hope Mr. Rousellot and others to submit their own kata threads to me and I will make them "official" E-Budo Okinawan Martial Arts Forum threads. This should be a forum for Shorin-ryu (Matsubayashi, Kobayashi, Shobayashi ...), Goju-ryu, Uechi-ryu, Ryuei-ryu and ALL of the Okinawan karate ryuha.

2. Snide remarks vs. Appropriate criticism
E-budo is a place of free speech and idea sharing. It serves no one's interests to start sniping at one another ... a practice in which all three of you engaged. If each of you reread all of the posts, you'll see what I mean. That said, it is important to realize that "scholarship", which is what we are all engaged in at some level, does not come without challenges and criticism. So, keep challenging one another on points of fact ... even one another's credentials/authority if need be ... but leave the personal attacks in your heads.

A few of the lessons I've learned about providing criticism/challenge of facts ... <ul><li>Spell-check whenever possible, particularly if the reply is going to be lengthy. I tend to write responses in an Outlook e-mail and then use the Outlook spell-checker before I post. Once it is spell-checked, I cut and paste it into the E-budo window and post. It doesn't catch everything, but it helps. This process also helps me temper my thoughts before I post.<li>Break your posts into digestible chunks ... usually 3-5 sentence paragraphs. It helps the reader follow your train of thought better and can help head off misunderstandings before they occur.<li> If quoting someone else ... provide a citation or link. This is standard research practice. It is not enough to say Nagamine Shoshin said "XYZ, PDQ". When did he say it and to whom? <li> If you know you are treading on thin ice ... don't stomp your feet. In other words if you know your question is going to raise some hackles, at least ask it courteously. <li> E-mail and BB posts are, at best, a difficult medium of communication. So provide a significant margin of error when reading something that has been posted. Avoid reacting to what you might consider subtext ... as one generally doesn't have the benefit of non-verbal cues to tell them if someone is seriously calling them a fool ... or just pulling their leg. <li> When in doubt, send the message privately ... don't make it a public issue unless you have your facts straight. The one who suffers most is you. <li> Take a deep breath before you hit the "Reply" button. Sure, you can go back and edit a post, but it is best to get it as close to right as possible the first time. Then you don't need to waste time explaining yourself later.</ul>
OK ... stepping out of my moderator role.

Thanks,

__________________
Doug Daulton

[Edited by Doug Daulton on 01-20-2001 at 05:26 PM]

[Doug Daulton]

Originally posted by Joe Swift ... This is probably as clear as MUD, but I hope you can wade through it! Maybe the following will help:

Thanks,

Joe,

Excellent post as always. Thanks. At the end of the post you seemed to be refering us to an outside resource (URL maybe?) However, the link did not come through (see above quote).

Were you teasing/torturing us?

__________________
Doug Daulton


[Edited by Doug Daulton on 01-20-2001 at 05:27 PM]

[Doug Daulton]

Originally posted by Jari Virta ... I was told that the techniques in this kata may have been created for fighting in the dark (especially the "seeking/searching hands" techniques), any opinions?

Mr. Virta,
This was one of the explanations offered to me for the kata Passai. Here, I think it is important for one to expand the idea of searching hands beyond fighting at night. While "sagwaa-di" (one Uchinanchu term for "searching hands'), can certainly apply to night-fighting, I think it is also generally develops one's kinesthetic awareness (the ability to feel movements of the limbs and body).

In my opinion, kinesthetic awareness is at the core of all budo, not just Okinawan karate. In the heat of combat, one cannot always rely on sight. Even in broad daylight, it is important to know where your body is in space relative to the objects around you. Think about the quarterback who "feels" the pass rush and steps up to avoid a sack.

This lesson hit home to me with an former judo partner who is legally blind. His standing technique is solid, but his ne-waza (mat technique) is devastating. This is because he never had to look for the openings .. he only relied on feeling the opponent relax or tense or whatever was needed to create the opening. Once he felt the opening, he was on you before you knew what hit you.

I work under the assumption that Okinawan karate teaches one to fight in a "phone booth". That is very, very close in ...so close that even in broad daylight one might not be able to see what is going on. Rather they may need to be able to gauge the opponent's strengths, weaknesses and intention through touch rather than line of sight.

I know this may sound esoteric and "sixth-sense"-ish, but it isn't. It is simply tuning your awareness to another channel ... touch. The skin is the body's largest organ and it serves only two primary purposes ... (1) Protection/cooling of your interior organs ... and (2) The collection and transmission of sensory data to the brain.

Originally posted by Jim Kass ... The only thing I can relate to the searching hand remark would be the technique, kagite uke (hooking hand block), that technique would be very useful in total darkness?

Agreed. Also, I think this hands and feet are both at play in the kagite uke.

Originally posted by Robert Rousselot ... I disagree that any kata is a "night fighting" kata. If so does that mean that the teacher that only practiced kusanku could only fight at night? Or even the person whom the kata is named after, did Kusanku only fight at night? I doubt it.

A true technique should work anytime anywhere. Let's face it, you never know when you will be attacked and you certainly won't have time to think about switching over to your night techniques when you are attacked at night.

Agreed. All techniques should be able to be applied any time of day. Isolation of a technique as "night-fighting" or "fighting against a wall" (Naihanchi) is unnecessarily restricting and perhaps even dangerous if, as Mr. Rousselot suggests, the practitioner stops to think and switch fighting modes.

That said, I do think some kata and waza lend themselves to introducing the student to a particular concept ... in this case Passai and "searching hands/feet". Once someone understands the concept, they should start to see it cascade across other techniques and kata ... in most cases this cascade is very subtle.

I hope this helps. Great thread everyone!

_____________________
Doug Daulton

[Edited by Doug Daulton on 01-22-2001 at 11:21 AM]

[Doug Daulton]

From "The Essence of Okinawan Karate-do" by Shoshin Nagamine (P. 195) ... The composer of this dateless kata is unknown. It, however, continues to be cherished by karatemen around Tomari village. shuto-waza (knife-hand techniques) and speedy movements distinguish this kata from the others. (ED. Matsubayashi-ryu Kata)
This was a favorite of Sensei Kyan.

What did other founders/senior teachers of other styles have to say about Passai?

_________________
Doug Daulton

[Edited by Doug Daulton on 01-20-2001 at 05:13 PM]

[Jari Virta]

Originally posted by Doug Daulton
I think it is also generally develops one's kinesthetic awareness (the ability to feel movements of the limbs and body).

So, in effect you think (the sagurite) it is the Okinawan equivalent to trapping hand-techniques of some Filipino Arts, Wing Tsun and such?

[Doug Daulton]

Originally posted by Jari Virta ...So, in effect you think (the sagurite) it is the Okinawan equivalent to trapping hand-techniques of some Filipino Arts, Wing Tsun and such?

While I am not completly familar with Filipino arts or Wing Tsun, I think my answer would be "Yes, I think they are similar." I have worked with two-man "push hands" drills and I think that Passai works some of the same principles in a one-man form.

Sorry to be so long-winded in my original reply.

Regards,

[twayman]

Wow, what a gem. I hope no one mind me bringing this one back to life.

In our school (Kobyashi-Ryu) we study Passai Sho and Dai. Recently we have learned Koryu Passai. We have exercises that address specific areas of the kata and practice the bunkai in these exercises. Some of the things we have found works well as throws, some as grabs, block and even “night fighting”. Some of the clearer “night techniques” or feeling technique we have see are the “feeling feet” before the double strikes and the very end of the kata (sho), the three “passai grabs at the very end.” Mind you that these same techniques work equally well in other situations. I.E. “feeling feet” used to sweep then the double strike could be interpreted as pushing or even pulling. One exercise we do is the kata without most of the turns and removing the cat-stances this exercise really brings out the “phone-booth fighting” aspects of the kata.

A good way to find the oyo bunkai that I have tried is doing this (or any) kata 250 times or more in a row. It takes a few hours so be sure to set aside some time without interruptions but, some of the things that are reviled are truly stunning. It’s interesting to find technique that at once “only” looked like a block can be seen as a strike, or a break or other things. To me these exercises help make the kata technique all inclusive and adaptable to most situations.

One other thing to try is do the kata backwards. Start with the last technique then work your way backwards. (I know some of you will say what the f@%^) but try it.

Frankly, I feel that if a practitioner spent a whole life learning and studying a single kata only the surface would be scratched but, man you would know that kata!!!

[Ed Gingras]

I was taught a version of this kata many years ago (around 1972) by Sensei Soken. The overall meaning of the kata was to 'breach the castle walls'.
The meaning was to 'break out' when surrounded. The last few moves were soft but firm. This allowed quick reaction to anything touched and was often used in a dark room. One of the more important aspects of Passai Sho and Passai Dai is that they make use of certain principles from Naihanchi kata and Pinon Kata.
v/r
Edward Gingras
Okinawa, Japan