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Thread: Body Conditioning

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Sorrentino View Post
    Hi Ron,Maybe you should leave that to the moderator. I really don't want this thread to drift, but I met Andrew at my dojo when we hosted a seminar with Roy Goldberg-sensei. Not that Andrew needs me to do so, but I will vouch for his manners. Andrew was consistently courteous and gracious, on and off the mat, in his interactions with me and the other seminar participants.

    In this instance, Dan asked Andrew to contact him by private message to discuss a future meeting. Andrew did. Apparently, Dan was not happy with Andrew's PM (and perhaps the PMs from others), and chose to air his displeasure with a private message publicly. Andrew took offense at being "scolded" publicly for his PM --- as many of us would, I suspect.

    Private messages were meant to be private. If I'm wrong about this, please contact me privately.

    Jim
    That would be a pretty accurate summation from my perspective as well. I contacted Dan via PM as he invited me to do. He did not respond to me privately but he seemed to address my request publicly. That's no problem. He is his own man. He don't wanna help me...ok. No problem. But it does seem somewhat hypocrytical to bemoan the "asians" for not being open to teaching the secrets and then to behave in a similar manner.
    Ricky Wood

  2. #77
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Andrew
    I didn't name names or be specific to anyone-you just did. And near as I can tell you didn't need to say anything, and could have written back in private and no one would have known who I was referring to. You certainly didn't write the others. I think the tone of your request is clearly echo'd in your post, so thanks for that.
    As for me assuming I have something to show you Er...didn't I say the opposite.
    Post #64
    ...Just write me a P.M. here. Training up here can be fun, you may meet people who have or do currently train with top (recognized) shihans in DR, Aikido, and other arts .....(What you feel may be familiar, maybe not.) We will see I guess. ......snip
    I understand that time is important to people so I suggest talking to some of the guys who have written in here, they can introduce you to others, just so you can make sure I...am not a waste...of yours. FWIW I charge nothing, as I'm just trying to help,)
    And fighting? Er...what? It isn't a question of fighting, but openess and fun, VS being difficult, and dissagreeable. For which there is no need but it's been done before. Debating and disagreeing over ideas and methods is just that. No where should we loose ourselves in the debate. Are you taking the ideas you obvious disagree with personally or something?
    "Speaking about aiki as if I have a truth others don't?" I thought you said you can read English? The case I made is the opposite of that. That this truth is in the art, is known, is taught, just not openly taught. Thanks for the expanded post clarifying your feelings though. No more need to be nice.
    What did you say "I don't want to be your friend, I want to train." Thanks...got it.
    Happy holidays
    Dan

  3. #78
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Ricky
    I get a lot of private p.m;s and emails all the time. It helps to understand what the person is looking for and needs when they are more than one sentence long.
    I have about 15 emails to be unanswered in 4 different forums. things like "I heard about you and want to train internals, where are you?" With no NAME but there screen name!
    It bugs me sometimes, shoot me.
    Cheers
    Dan

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harden View Post
    Ricky
    I get a lot of private p.m;s and emails all the time. It helps to understand what the person is looking for and needs when they are more than one sentence long.
    I have about 15 emails to be unanswered in 4 different forums. things like "I heard about you and want to train internals, where are you?" With no NAME but there screen name!
    It bugs me sometimes, shoot me.
    Cheers
    Dan
    Dan,
    Sorry for bugging you.
    Ricky Wood

  5. #80
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Murray View Post
    I was thinking in regards to all the people who have questioned whether this "aiki" is related to "internal skills" or related to that other "aiki" or related to CIMA, etc.

    If you think about it, if Takeda learned through someone who had some Chinese martial background skills, it certainly deflates some people's argument that DR aiki is different/unique. Of course, the flip side is also true, if Takeda learned from someone who had mostly Japanese training in some other art, then those people would use that as proof that DR aiki and CIMA internals are different.
    So, yeah, historically it can be an important piece of information.
    Well I don't think that will ever be addressed on the internet or in person. The greats debated, and made chastizing comments about each other. There may be too much invested in any given method for folks to want to try to figure out a common binding underlying path to aiki. DR schools argue among themselves about who really has got what in the same way the CMA do, and have for a while now. Odd that there are some seriously skilled DR Shihan who have gone to Sagawa and have commented on his skills and how he...changed them.. Hell I have seen them change their approach to aiki after training with him. So its odd to then read him getting downplayed or his words marginalized by lessor lights. I know one prominant, very accomplished and skilled Shihan who was absolutely stunned by Sagawa's skill. Stands to reason that Sagawa's open sharing of just what he was doing or thought to be critical training to create it should prove interesting.

    As for how they are the same? I guess you would have to know, to know. And then see that blown up and debated just like the greats debated. One thing is for sure, everyone needs a measuring rod something which they can use to measure their skills and improvements. You yourself know you are training in a way you never did, and never heard of, but can read some of Sagawas words and recognize things right off the bat as truths to your training. Get out and meet certain CMA teachers who know their stuff and you are going to be pleasantly surprised to stand there and without prompting here them start to outline training methods and ideals that you are now learning as well. It's the reason two of Sagawa's men were non-plussed meeting the Taiji master and seeing him do DR waza with little prompting...oh Aiki age..hmmm peng jin. Like dis way...blam!!! there they were up on theor toes captured! They were unaware there was a way to train it...outside their own art, and pissed they were not shown by Sagawa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Murray View Post
    You know I don't disagree. After feeling the skills, it's hard to not accept that things are related, that technique driven work isn't the path to aiki, and solo training is very important.

    Eh, maybe we can discuss more in detail over dinner one day.

    Mark
    Yeah well, I think there are a few DR people who would disagree with you on that. Those who have been in the art for years and taken a lot of Ukemi for high ranked DR teachers know exactly what it feels like to have it applied to them. They know the solo training works and it is strengthening, and increasing their ability to do their arts Aiki.
    Yeah we can talk about it when you come up.
    Last edited by Dan Harden; 19th December 2007 at 22:23.

  6. #81
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    Dan,
    Sorry for bugging you.
    Well you never bug me Ricky. I just would like to hear more about just what the heck you were looking for. I mean... come on man, I'd love to give you a more informed answer. Hell, I'd give ya my phone number if I could drag more than a line out of ya.
    Cheers
    Dan
    Last edited by Dan Harden; 19th December 2007 at 22:24.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Tisdale View Post
    I don't invite no one into my home without an introduction. And I'm pretty sure it works that way in Texas.
    Not to promote the thread drift, but I'm with Ron.

    It works that way here in Oregon. I train in a private dojo in my teachers home and no one gets in without an introduction. It's his HOME, let alone the huge liability risk to him and his family.

    May be I'm just old fashoned in this day and age of texting and e-everything, but a "dude, where's your dojo?" type PM wouldn't get much of a response from me either.
    Tom Wharton
    Kodokan Aikido, puttin' the harm in harmony

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harden View Post
    Well you never bug me Ricky. I just would like to hear more about just what the heck you were looking for. I mean... come on man, I'd love to give you a more informed answer. Hell, I'd give ya my phone number if I could drag more than a line out of ya.
    Cheers
    Dan
    It is kinda hard to get more tham a couple lines outa me.
    What I'm looking for? Specifically I am looking for some tenren methods to sensitize, develop and stregnthen my internal skills. I do shiko (sumo stomps) in the morning and try to work in "proper" breathing methods while doing so. I would like to know if I were doing them productively. I am currently working on the tanren methods as outlined in "Let Every Breath...Secrets of the Russian Breath Masters." I have experimented with your "wall work" routine as much as I can given your brief description. There is only so far you can go without quality guidance and instruction. What I want/need is feedback from people who understand these principles on a higher level than I do. I know and love basic aikido waza. I had a good teacher. I believe there is a deeper level of the art than I currently understand and therefore am reaching out, looking for those who might be willing to help along the way. You never know what kind of gemstones one may find in one's own backyard. I'm more than likely going to have to travel a bit to find what I am looking for. Bottom line is; If I'm going to take the time to do 100 shiko a day, I'd just as soon I'm doing them the right way.
    Ricky Wood

  9. #84
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Thats more words than I have ever seen you piece together anywhere....
    Let me see if I can put something together for ya. I'll P.M. you later.
    Cheers
    Dan

  10. #85
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    An old one and a good one from Toby who is being more than charitable in this article:
    http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=234
    Doug Walker
    Completely cut off both heads,
    Let a single sword stand against the cold sky!

  11. #86
    Samurai Jack Guest

    Default "I Think I am turning Japanese...I really think so"

    Quote Originally Posted by Walker View Post
    An old one and a good one from Toby who is being more than charitable in this article:
    http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=234
    My dos centavos

    Mr. Harden requested people to email him, and then acted arrogantly and rudely. He didn't provide his requirements for communication via PM, he is not Japanese, nor is a well known Japanese Koryu instructor such as Mr. Threadgill. Nor does Mr. Harden have the same reputation or the mount of reputable support .i.e. other reputable organizations as Mr. Threadgill. I would bet Mr. Harden is not recognized by the leading aikijujutsu organizations. I don't know even what system Mr. Harden is of. And the qualifications between these men aren't the same, or even comparable. Therefore, I may not agree with Mr. Threadgill's methods, but he has a qualified and well-known reputation. Mr. Harden's action are self-important, self-serving and arrogant, not to mention rude and misleading. Once again, we see a familiar defensive tactic by Mr. Harden, for what reason is only known to Mr. Harden. It is unfortunate that those who wish to physically understand Mr. Harden's skill and arguement as he professes, he puts them through an eccentric, and anti-social gauntlet of his own design choosing who he wishes and doesn't wish to demonstrate too. I think it is unfortunated that people should have to suffer Mr. Harden's questionable ways. He is no aiki master.

    I wish Mr. Harding good luck, and best wishes.
    Last edited by Samurai Jack; 20th December 2007 at 01:55. Reason: tuning it up

  12. #87
    Samurai Jack Guest

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    I feel that since Mr. Harden is not an aiki master at any level, much less of the author which he is so besotted, infatuated relying heavily as a crutch on this author's publicly published philosophy and experiences to explain his abilities and arguments, yet Mr. Harden for all his skill doesn't rely on his own; perplexing. His skill (what ever that might be or what ever he calls it) I would bet is not be recognized as aikijujutsu by any reputable aikijujutsu organization. Therefore, how can he argue or proclaim he knows there are different or are not different aikijujutsus, or his ability to interpret and have greater insight the words of the author of the book than anyone else? He says he does, it is based on his own skill and experiences that he notes. He didn't train with the author of the book. I know for a fact he would never be accepted as a student. His research is weak and lacks professional protocol at best, indicated by his visit to Japan as he claims. Basically, he uses testimonials, his own. At this point in the argument no one truly qualified, a recognized and reputable expert/master in aikijujutsu has spoken to this topic Mr. Harden picks and chooses his Koryu culture and isn’t consistent with it, or understands it. Mr. Harden, I fear has muddled the waters of this topic with his own anomalies and perceptions. He may have abilities that impress, but that doesn't mean it is aikijujutsu as recognized officially.

    Looking at the facts, Mr. Harden didn’t answer the tough (well soft-ball) questions. He didn’t train with the author he cites as if first hand experience. Our exchanges and including those Mr. Harden has had with others. I also weighed in as well those in support of Mr. Harden. Also, a very important one, there has not been top reputable aikijujutsu instructors supporting Mr. Harden's discussion, I have read. I have determined that I can't support Mr. Harden's effort or argument that he is any type of an authority on the subject discussed. He may flip a few eggs in an egg pan at home, but that doesn't make his an Iron Chef.

    Big deal?...right…what is the noise all about anyway. This is the problem, the subject fall victim to the same issues that relate to chi and CIMA. There is no standardization. Some people don’t want standardization so they can peddle their wares, their personal version to jump on the band wagon. As a result, a person such as the thread starter who asks the question doesn’t know who to believe or gets the proper information. I for one am a victim of that. I believed the wrong guy with the wrong information, and felt cheated. I in fact, promoted the wrong information and my credibility was effected. Lesson learned.

    Btw, a forum is only as credible as those who post in authority.
    Last edited by Samurai Jack; 20th December 2007 at 03:20. Reason: Happy Holidays end transmission

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post
    Btw, a forum is only as credible as those who post in authority.

    Irony, much?
    Aaron J. Cuffee


    As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
    - H.L. Mencken

  14. #89
    Samurai Jack Guest

    Default You know what I mean?

    I don't claim in any way to be an authority, or speak as an authority or to have special skill or abilities in terms of martial arts that I am not qualified, authorized, etc. to. I don't play games with posters; if you ask me a question I don't become unrationally defensive, or by inviting them to PM and then become rude etc. to them.


    BOT:
    I am wondering if anyone will post here who has the expertise needed to address the topic. It would be nice to get the real information. I am supposing that would need to be given by a real expert. The other problem I see when researching is in the Japanese language and that we are dealing with a concept of a past era that isn't well documented. An era that also was not scientific minded. Maybe we shouldn't go into the past for answers and start with what is current as a demarcation. We then can start with a standard.
    Last edited by Samurai Jack; 20th December 2007 at 12:15.

  15. #90
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    Mr. Samurai,

    Your post at 9:43pm is completely built around attacking Dan then at 11:16 pm you post a second post all based on attacking Dan. Nothing constructive in either of them. What happened during that hour and half? Did you work yourself into a second foaming lather? Did you feel that more venom was the answer and would garner the desired results?

    We get the picture, you do not like Dan and you do not agree with his posts. Enough said, move along, get over it, leave it alone, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, ignore him, ignore his posts, do whatever you want, other than the continual I hate Dan posts. If you wish to make a counter point then do so but please READ and TRY to understand what has already been posted. It is obvious from your earlier posts that you struggle with this, no matter how many times you claim to the contrary. Frankly this thread was moving along nicely until you poked your head out of your hole. Note this does not mean everyone agreed, thank God for diversity, but it was still an interesting and constructive thread.

    As you said in your first post, when you orginally came here you feel flat on your face, I can assure you, you are doing the same again. Stamping your feet and pointing your finger at the posters will not gain anymore favor than the gross sucking noises you tried before. IDEA: Trying being productive and constructive, even when you disagree and when you can not be one or both of those then stay silent.

    Final note of caution: A good number of folks on this forum have met and have personal relationships. I doubt anyone has met everyone but most of us are only once removed from each other. This has helped communications and understanding between the forum members. If you truly wish to be a part of the forum get out and meet some folks, train with them, drink a beer with them and please slow down on making any posts on the forum. When you get the urge to post, stand up, back away from the keyboard and resist that urge with every cell of your body. Trust me that will earn you more respect than anything you have done to date.

    Merry Christmas everyone,

    Mark J.

    PS. My appologies for this post to the forum at large. While this post would normally be better as a PM, my experience with Mr. Samurai Jack via PM has shown me that such interaction is worse than useless.

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