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Thread: Legitimacy of High Rankings Promotions

  1. #1
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    Default Legitimacy of High Rankings Promotions

    I participate in some other Forum's and this past week a very touchy subject was raised in regards to the legitimacy of some Kohaku promotions. Does anyone believe as I do that High Ranking Promotions (6th Dan and above) should be the most scrutinized of all Judo Promotions due to their significance.

    Do people feel that it is ethical to drastically reduce the Time in Grade, as well as other requirements needed to achieve these Dan Ranks without Legitimate reason or explanation. And the fact that many of these individuals wear such Ranks but do not have the ability or knowledge to even posses them.

    Train Hard, Stay Safe,
    Good Luck

    Combat Judo Academy
    Richard Scholl
    "It's about heart above all." Saito, Hitoshi 7th Dan
    http://www.combatjudo.us

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    Now that is a can of worms of A-bomb quality...

    Why don't we expand this topic to the entire forum huh. You know, in an attempt to blow up the whole of E-budo...

    You're about to tread on a lot toes and even more dreams, so tread carefully.

    As always,

    respectfully


    Christophe


    Regards,
    Christophe van Eysendyck.

  3. #3
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    Now that is a can of worms of A-bomb quality...

    Why don't we expand this topic to the entire forum huh. You know, in an attempt to blow up the whole of E-budo...

    You're about to tread on a lot toes and even more dreams, so tread carefully.

    As always,

    respectfully


    Christophe
    I guess that is why this post got 115 views and only 1 response. I guess I was in error when I thought this would be the better place to pose this question. Well I guess it back to Bullshido.net for me.

    I apologize for my ignorance, it won't happen again.

    Train Hard, Stay Safe,
    Good Luck

    Combat Judo Academy
    Richard Scholl
    "It's about heart above all." Saito, Hitoshi 7th Dan
    http://www.combatjudo.us

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    It's an eerie sort of silence isn't it.
    Ricky Wood

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    Just a little bit. LOL

    Train Hard, Stay Safe,
    Good Luck

    Combat Judo Academy
    Richard Scholl
    "It's about heart above all." Saito, Hitoshi 7th Dan
    http://www.combatjudo.us

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mdrnsamurai View Post
    And the fact that many of these individuals wear such Ranks but do not have the ability or knowledge to even posses them.
    OK, I'll bite - just for the sake of the traffic on here.

    Does anybody in judo ever get promoted that high without either a strong competition record, or a long track record in coaching and running a succesful dojo/club?

    Genuine question - I know nothing about judo politics.
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    Short answer --

    Above second or third dan, it's all ego.

    Long answer --

    You can acquire rank in judo, same as anywhere else, but the inflation is, overall, not nearly as bad as in some other systems.

    Arguments over rank were one of the major reasons for the fragmentation of US judo during the 1960s. The assertion was that the Japanese Americans were being too stingy with rank, especially with judoka of non-Japanese heritage. In addition, many of Japanese Americans of the period, like their white counterparts, discriminated against African Americans, Filipinos, and Latinos. Also, the Kodokan itself seems to have had problems promoting people who were not of Japanese descent. (Quick -- name a Korean promoted to 9-dan or higher by the Kodokan!) Then, in the USA, along came O'Sensei Phil, and the flood gates busted wide open. This caused enormous hate and discontent through the 1980s, and hard feelings to this day.

    Canadian judo also had problems with rank; French Canadian judoka in particular had problems with the Ontario-based "Nisei Mafia." British judoka (lots of Budokwai roots in Canadian judo) also had some problems, but they usually got around this by going to Japan or Britain for their promotions, something the French Canadians were less likely to do, for a variety of reasons, both linguistic and economic.

    European judo had similar issues, and today, people often have one rank through the Kodokan, and another through the British Judo Association, or whatever.

    The thing is, in judo, you have to spend a lot to get that exalted rank, and afterwards, you're expected to promote the sport. In addition, your peer group still takes you for who you are rather than what you wrap around your middle. For example, Dickie Bowen was always proud of the fact that he never accepted any promotions from the British Judo Association after having gone to Japan in the 1950s; he had a 4-dan from the Kodokan, a rank received while he was an international player, and if folks like Palmer and Gleeson subsequently promoted themselves higher, well, that, to Dickie's mind, just made them look foolish.

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    So right Joe, so right. I learned an old saying from a sensei about 47 years ago that was paraphrased lot by some of us and not many understood it. It goes like this; The Master (Confucius) said: “The ancients were reserved in their speech, lest their actions might not come up to their words.” We morphed it to say: “One who talks does not know. One who knows does not talk?” You can apply this to MA ranks too.

    Fragmentation of US judo during the 1960s over ranks was no joke and in some ways it still persists. I saw it a lot from the 1950’s onward, it was a minor irritation for me but still yet was sad never the less how people treated each other. It was only after I walked away from Judo that people wanted to promote me. Weird!

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    The truly sad part of the whole rank inflation and organization split situation is that the discrimination was real, the selling of rank was real and in the end the quality of judo suffered.

    Peace

    Dennis
    Dennis P. Mc Geehan
    Everyday presents new challanges and opportunities to learn!

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    While it is a part of USA judo history and Jeff was more effected than I, my brother spent a few years in Tokyo and said he knew some godans who received their rank because they drove the "old boy" around. He said they couldn't beat a shodan. In the next sentence he said there was a godan he procticed with, who he could handle, in the dojo but, "hang onto your jock strap because your'e going for a ride" in competition.
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