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  1. #1
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    Default Teatcher and student etiquette

    Hi all,

    First. Iīm sory. My english is not the best. And maybe I allready have make some forum etiquette mistakes. Sory if I have.

    My question (quite long stoory).

    I have a student. He started with a great spirit. Soon he became on of my "favourite" (moust used) uke.
    But after while he became more arrogant. He started to disagree whit me (loudly) and questionaising (doubting) techniques i teatch. He started to do techniques differently in my class (heīs own way and the way another student in my dojo do(this other student has learned heīs techniques elsewhere)). And finaly he went in to kyu examination without my permission(telling to the teatcher that he has my permission). After the examination he announced his new rank to all (by e-mail).

    He didnīt even look me in to eyes. After I asked why he went to the examination? he just told me that it is my own fault of not teatching him enough...
    I did narrowed down teatching him after he started to do techniques another way (he learned them from this another student). In one class we all 3 were practicing together, and I told him to do this one technique like i have teatched, not the way how he was doing it(with this another student), and he looked me and said, "I donīt know any other way". Even when we spent hole yesterday learning it (in my way). I was choked. It clearly looked like he wasenīt interested to learn from me anymore.

    I canīt even imagine to act so whit my sensei. I feel like being betrayed. Maybe it is my own fault. I dont claim to be good teatcher. But what would you do if you would be me?


    Yours,

    Mike White
    Aikido

  2. #2
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    I have had students like this before. If they want rank from you it must be done your way, plain and simple. If they go to a testing at another location and need your permission that is plain enough. Apparently this student lied about it. i would inform the ranking organization of this and inform him both prifvatrely as well as publicly, in the dojo in front of the class. If the ranking organization says it is OK, demote him as publicly as he promoted himself.
    With respect,

    Mitch Saret

  3. #3
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    It is apparent that your student has lost a great deal of respect for you as his Sensei, and unfortunately for himself to do what he did. Many of my students crosstrain in TKD and Brazillian JJ but they fully understand that when in the Dojo with me things are done in accordance with Ryu protocol
    (I also crosstrain in other arts). I severed a 13 year relationship with a Student/asst. Instructor due to behavior unbecoming of a practitioner of our Ryu. He was bad mouthing our Shihan, this writer and other practitioners as well as speading lies and engaging in splitting behavior because he was not being promoted fast enough for him. That was due to lack of maturity in some areas that are expected from Yudansha in that position. I say your student has his reward in full--a damaged relationship with his teacher, seen as less than honarable by others, and a belt that was earned under false pretense. I say be done with him and concentrate on those who really want to learn and value the gift you are attempting to share. Severing a long term relationship with my student broke my heart as Shihan and I had trained him since he was 15 years old (for free). Students will come and go but the art remains.
    Rick Torres, Dojo Cho
    Integrity Defensive Arts
    Victoria, Texas
    www.ksrjujitsu.com
    [/B]

  4. #4
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    If you want to learn from me-you learn my way.
    If you progress you progress at the rate I set for you.
    I am the teacher you are the student.
    If you disagree with the above leave before I kick you out (literally or figurativley).

    Duane Wolfe
    Duane Wolfe

  5. #5
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    Mike,

    IMHO:

    You should definitely end your relationship with this student.

    In addition, you should have a long conversation with your other student that was "teaching" him other techniques. You should be the only teacher in the dojo unless YOU state otherwise. In addition, any such "challenges" to you being a teacher should be dealt with immediately. I think this situation went way too far.

    As a teacher I always encourage conversation and questions. It is important to keep an open mind, especially when training for "real world" situations. However, when training traditionally, we (all those in a ryu) must submit to the knowledge and training methods of the creators and leaders of the ryu.

    Best of luck.

    A. De Luna

  6. #6
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    Hello Mike!
    It seems that your student cannot learn from you anymore, that`s sad for him, because he needs to search another dojo, but obviously also a sad situation for you, because you also invested power in his growth...May I ask how long he has been your student?

    Quote Originally Posted by small-mike View Post
    And finaly he went in to kyu examination without my permission(telling to the teatcher that he has my permission).
    Didn`he need a signature or anything like that?
    N. Schweizer

  7. #7
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    Default student/teacher etiquette

    Mike,
    First of all there is no need for you to apologize for your english. I am assuming that you are Japanese. There are so many more Japanese people, especially Martial Artists who try to adapt to the English than there are Americans who try to adapt to the Japanese. For the last 17 years I have studied in a very, very, classical Gojuyru school with a very traditional American Sensei. I have struggled time and time again with etiquette and trying to understand the way my study must be approached in order to better understand the cultural context of the style that I study. We have from time to time had the kinds of students come to our school to train like the one you are describing. Many years ago, Sensei used to get excited too when he would see a student with so much potential who was seemingly so eager to learn. Every single time, the student wanted more, more, more, his own way, doing whatever he thought he wantedto do to way in advance of where he was suppose for the process of his learning. It was a struggle sometimes. What my Sensei did was just to follow the old tradition. It takes time to get to know the character of the individual you are training. As an insturctor you have the right to decide not to teach a particular student if they begin, at any time, to show that they are disrespectful to the art or to you. After all if you teach a student long enough, he or she will have tools that are possibly deadly. That is a very big responsibility that you have. You have the right and the responsibility to expect a student to do what you teach, when you teach it, and how you teach it or go find a school that will allow him to acquire information without any real learning. Actually, that is what he is denying himself by his behavior.
    Maybe you need to talk with some other instructors who are masters and can help you to be stronger in this area until you can establish better habits for dealing with these kinds of students.
    Do you have a group of instructors who

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