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Thread: Hope this doesn't hit any social Kyusho's.

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    Default Hope this doesn't hit any social Kyusho's.

    I was wondering if anyone feels that this whole MMA subculture,(right down to the fashion), is the young white males answer to the black urban male.

    There was a recent article by some pyschologist that stated the average young white male emulates the persona of the black urban male through this MMA culture. She went on to state that in this day the black urban male is looked at by society (especially, "pop" culture among youths) as tough, smooth, financialy succesful, and a man that can get the ladies. So the young white male, who in current pop culture is not viewed that way, emulates the young urban black male's behaviour to gain acceptence and prove that he too is just as "tough", and that this MMA mentality is basically the popular manifestation of this.

    I myself don't agree 100% w/ this, but thought it was an interesting article.
    There are,however, some very interesting observations by this woman. Some of them are right on.


    Thanks
    Chris
    Chris Scarbrough

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    Default hmmm

    I think the ethinic/racial angle is questionable. However the MMA persona that's marketed to young men plays on all the insecurities and desires typical to that time in life, and in that regard I think what you see is what you get...i.e. an overly agressive/defensive attitude and an equation of "success" with being some kind of dominating alpha-male kind of figure.

    Not a comment on MMA training or methods mind you, which have their own merit; just a comment on the marketing and culture.
    Zachariah Zinn

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    Speaking as one in the profession, articles by psychologists are often surpassingly stupid when they go outside their knowledge and rely on fantasy to make theories. The kind of individuals who would feel inadequate in regards to masculine image (A fantasy of what is tough based on their impressions of young urban African American males that they got from TV - which is surely where said psychologist got hers) - are not the kind of people who do MMA. Because, in MMA, you know exactly who you are. The young urban black, the young urban white, the rural Vietnamese, the Indian from the rez - it's all "so what" once you are in the ring. So the article, if on paper, is yet another example, of the slaughter of innocent trees for the perpetuation of idiocy.

    Read another article which suggested that geeks are the new sex symbol anyway, since all women want is power, and geeks rule these days. Ask your computer.

    Nice thing about psychologists - one can imagine anything, put it in a paper, and turn it into money, as long as it's written in a certain style.

    I remember attending a lecture by a Lacanian analyst who was discussing a horrendous slaughter/murder by a young man of eighteen and, I swear to God, said, "Note the significance of the number eighteen. The "1," of course is the phallus, and the "8" symbolizes woman, because everyone knows that women have two holes. This young man, surely, could not accept his essential hermaphroditic nature and in bisexual panic, enacted this murder."

    Ever since, I've felt a little dirty while doing my taxes.

    Best

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur View Post
    I remember attending a lecture by a Lacanian analyst who was discussing a horrendous slaughter/murder by a young man of eighteen and, I swear to God, said, "Note the significance of the number eighteen. The "1," of course is the phallus, and the "8" symbolizes woman, because everyone knows that women have two holes. This young man, surely, could not accept his essential hermaphroditic nature and in bisexual panic, enacted this murder."
    ...

    ...

    ....

    I..wha...is that... surely you're not...surely it was....

    ......

    Ellis, please, please, please tell me that you're joking, or that the lecturer in question was joking. Because I'm visiting family right now, and I don't think that my parents have any Scotch in the house, and I can't take a statement like that sober.

    And please, please, please, please at least tell me that at least my tax dollars weren't underwriting that grant...
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

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    Default

    No tax dollars. Arranged by a mental health agency. I - uh - created kind of an "event" when I walked out - after #18. We were on the fourth floor, and I started laughing when I hit the stairs. (Un)fortunately, the stairwell had this kind of amplifying effect, and my laughter somehow boomed into the auditorium like out of a loudspeaker, during my entire four floor descent. A friend who stayed said that it sounded kind of - demonic - echoing through the hall, accompanied by huge footsteps. The speaker, apparently, lost track of his numbers.
    Best

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    Although Ellis's contributions probably deserve to be the final word on this subject, I'll throw in my "stating the bleedin' obvious" un-academic viewpoint:

    MMA fashion is not based on black urban fashion - it is based on extreme sports fashion (e.g. mountain biking, skateboarding), which in turn is/was chiefly influenced by surfing culture. All sports that (if you really absolutely have to involve ethnicity) have traditionally had a predominately white demographic.* As has MMA, for that matter - certainly compared to boxing.
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur View Post
    A friend who stayed said that it sounded kind of - demonic - echoing through the hall, accompanied by huge footsteps. The speaker, apparently, lost track of his numbers.
    I'm glad that the story had a happy ending.
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

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    I gave up reading sociology tracts after reading one that was funded by a grant that proved, through longitudinal study, that the higher one's rank in a company, the more money one was paid. I thought a look at a published pay chart might have answered that question.

    As for the tattoos and such, I figure that just means that these guys plan on becoming state workers when they get old and fat. Fat chicks with tattoos? Ditto.

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    Thankfully the rank=pay thing doesn't always hold true.

    I work as a contractor mostly because companies don't want to pay me more than my boss. So I work as an independent, and they pay me what I'm worth.

    Your average sociologist wouldn't understand that because there is no reference to feminist theory. Nothing to gripe about.
    Jonathan Adrian Treloar
    Perception is strong, Sight is weak - Musashi
    Right forearm is strong, Sight is weak - Treloar

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    As one of the only black urban males on this forum, I will respond.

    I have to agree that the MMA thing, as far as most urban white males goes, is more of an "Extreme, yeah, maaaan, fuggin' A!!!" thing than a "yeah, man" thing.
    Terry Miller

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPaladin View Post
    As one of the only black urban males on this forum, I will respond.
    I guess no one told him about Elder999 then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shugenja_09 View Post
    I was wondering if anyone feels that this whole MMA subculture,(right down to the fashion), is the young white males answer to the black urban male.

    There was a recent article by some pyschologist that stated the average young white male emulates the persona of the black urban male through this MMA culture. She went on to state that in this day the black urban male is looked at by society (especially, "pop" culture among youths) as tough, smooth, financialy succesful, and a man that can get the ladies. So the young white male, who in current pop culture is not viewed that way, emulates the young urban black male's behaviour to gain acceptence and prove that he too is just as "tough", and that this MMA mentality is basically the popular manifestation of this.

    I myself don't agree 100% w/ this, but thought it was an interesting article.
    There are,however, some very interesting observations by this woman. Some of them are right on.


    Thanks
    Chris

    Link to article please!
    As a quick reply before Ive read it though, I would say that you have to seperate the popular laypeoples view of MMA, with that of the serious fighters and the long term hobby mixed martial artists involved.
    Paul Greaves
    ''Skill is aquired via sweat equity''

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    Quote Originally Posted by william northcote View Post
    I guess no one told him about Elder999 then?
    I believe Elder999 is more of a black rural male.

    Interesting though... Some of us have met each other in real life, but beyond that - how on earth do you know what ethnicity someone has on an internet bulletin board?
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeWilliams View Post
    I believe Elder999 is more of a black rural male.

    Interesting though... Some of us have met each other in real life, but beyond that - how on earth do you know what ethnicity someone has on an internet bulletin board?
    True. How can one indeed tell who is what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shugenja_09 View Post
    ... She went on to state that in this day the black urban male is looked at by society (especially, "pop" culture among youths) as tough, smooth, financialy succesful, and a man that can get the ladies...
    I would hardly say that this is the stereotype. Just the opposite in fact, and I'd probably get thrown out of here for reinforcing racist stereotypes if I said more.

    Dirk

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