Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33

Thread: Beware of Propaganda and Hype

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Exclamation Beware of Propaganda and Hype

    To those following the recent threads here, and on Aikido Journal and Aikiweb:

    Beware of Internet Propaganda

    For some reason, there are a handful of mixed martial artists who have been trying to strip mine the inner teachings out of arts like Daito-ryu, and then *intentionally* attempting to discredit the current generation of Daito-ryu members as well as instigate infighting and political drama. On one hand they give props for what Daito-ryu *was* in prior generations, while on the other hand doing everything they can (sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally) to undermine the efforts of the current generation of the arts in their attempt to preserve their teachings for future generations to benefit from.

    Many have wondered why Daito-ryu appears to have so many political problems associated with it. Well, its clear that due to the undying interest and popularity of the art, many outsiders have exploited the art to serve their own agendas. Some unethically use the name to market their own teachings, while others use the name of the art and its instructors as a means to qualify their own teachings. Some do it for money, while others do it for fame and ego. But the game is the same.

    Why exploit Daito-ryu? We can only assume that Daito-ryu and its current membership are the only things that stand between them and spreading their own interests. They use internet forums such as these as a free place to spread infomercials about themselves and their own teachings, while at the same time tearing down the "competition". If what they have to offer is so great, why can't it stand on its own merit? While Daito-ryu has had internal political issues in the past, there are many members of the various branches of this current generation that are on friendly terms. Any "political" issues being spread right now are being manufactured by those who don't have deep knowledge of the art, and are in the vast majority of cases, outsiders. Members answer their questions only to be disregarded (by them at least) as naive, ignorant, or stupid. But think about it - who is more likely to know about the internal workings of an art? Outsiders with superficial or no formal exposure to an art, or long term members in good standing? Who is more likely to know the full story, or at least, the other side of the story? Who is more likely to have *first hand knowledge* of certain "unnamed" people being referenced in these threads? If the art did not have so much to offer the current generation of Daito-ryu members, then why would they still be studying it? Tricked by mass hypnosis?!?

    I write this post in hopes of warning the public reading these threads of a growing trend I'm seeing on the internet. Posters using unnamed people and senior instructors to back up their unsupported opinions, while at the same time discounting feedback from those who might be in a position to know the situation better. Daito-ryu is apparently the source they wish to destroy, and aikido is the market they wish to sell to:

    "Tired of your techniques not working right? Want to perform aikido the way the founder did? Fix it with our brand of mixed martial arts that 'they' don't want you to know about. Let's call it Daito-ryu aiki, and trust me - aikido is supposed to have the 'Daito-ryu aiki' we are talking about. Don't let the name change of the art or the Founder's evolution of aikido fool ya. We know what's best for you."

    Just something to think about. If you're still curious about Daito-ryu, ask those who are members in good standing what their experience has been. If people writing these posts are hinting around to you through private phone calls or emails about their formal involvement with Daito-ryu, contact the branch they claim to have trained/train with and VERIFY IT FOR YOURSELF. Hell, I'll even help put you in touch with a representative if desired. Like everything else in life, apply common sense and recognize propaganda and hype for what it really is. All those picking at the art have a vested interest in seeing it discredited. Arts don't survive if the instructors don't transmit the teachings, and the art doesn't benefit from having a student base that sucks.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    520
    Likes (received)
    72

    Default

    Nathan,

    "Tired of your techniques not working right?"
    Yes I am!

    "Want to perform aikido the way the founder did?"
    You bet I do!

    "Fix it with our brand of mixed martial arts that 'they' don't want you to know about."
    I don't know who "they" are but how could "they" withhold this information from me? I'm willing to attend a seminar, maybe two!

    "Let's call it Daito-ryu aiki, and trust me - aikido is supposed to have the 'Daito-ryu aiki' we are talking about."
    I knew there was something missing in my training. Daito-ryu aiki! Thats it!

    "Don't let the name change of the art or the Founder's evolution of aikido fool ya. We know what's best for you."
    How can I sign all my worldly possessions over, to you, to teach me?

    But hold on, is it still Daito-ryu aiki, if we aren't practicing it within the context of Daito-ryu? I thought there was a LOT more to Daito-ryu and aiki besides some body conditioning and IMA stuff? How do I know what you're selling me really is Daito-ryu aiki? How long did you study Daito-ryu for, to learn this?

    Nathan your offer is interesting but I think I see some flaws with your claims. You seem unwilling to be honest when simple questions about where you learned your skills are asked, and then attack me on a public forum. I don't want to call you a liar, but where I come from...

    I think I'll have to pass. Maybe I should invest my time with a Daito-ryu teacher who can place my training in a better context.

    This was fun!
    Christopher Covington

    Daito-ryu aikijujutsu
    Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu heiho

    All views expressed here are my own and don't necessarily represent the views of the arts I practice, the teachers and people I train with or any dojo I train in.

  3. #3
    Finny Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendoguy9 View Post

    But hold on, is it still Daito-ryu aiki, if we aren't practicing it within the context of Daito-ryu? I thought there was a LOT more to Daito-ryu and aiki besides some body conditioning and IMA stuff? How do I know what you're selling me really is Daito-ryu aiki? How long did you study Daito-ryu for, to learn this?

    Nathan your offer is interesting but I think I see some flaws with your claims. You seem unwilling to be honest when simple questions about where you learned your skills are asked, and then attack me on a public forum. I don't want to call you a liar, but where I come from...

    I think I'll have to pass. Maybe I should invest my time with a Daito-ryu teacher who can place my training in a better context.

    This was fun!
    Did I miss something?

    Or did you just not read his post.

    Or was that sarcasm?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nagoya, Japan
    Posts
    522
    Likes (received)
    31

    Default

    Well, this has all the makings...

    Did I miss something?

    Or did you just not read his post.

    Or was that sarcasm?
    It was sarcasm.
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, žonne he ęt guše gengan ženceš longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearaš. - The Beowulf Poet

  5. #5
    Finny Guest

    Default

    hahahaha

    Damn this deadpan computer - always tricking me

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Lightbulb

    BTW, in regards to the handful of people in America that have been judged to have "it" by the chosen few, here is something else to consider:

    There is one branch of Daito-ryu that has been represented and trained consistently here in America for over 35 years. The North American Headquarters is, and has always been, based here on the west coast. That means there are very senior members (and former members) of this group that non-members have never heard mention of. They hold high ranks/levels of initiation, and many have had sigificant training and experiences in Japan. Some have been training since the art was first introduced to America 35 years ago.

    As such, using the common sense meter, I propose the above is one example of how it might be possible that there are in fact skilled budo-ka that have "it", but simply do not out involve themselves with self-promotion or open seminars.

    Just something more to think about.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Default Translation issue

    I just compared the translated English language text in Kondo Katsuyuki's "DR AJJ - Hiden Mokuroku Ikkajo" book (AJ) with the original Japanese printed next to it. The text in question is on page 11, while the original Japanese is printed in the last paragraph of page 8.

    The main statements being quoted by Daito-ryu detractors - apparently made by Tokimune to Kondo - appears to be the following. Note that the Japanese words in brackets are the romanized Japanese words I found used in the original text:

    "If you teach people the true techniques [honto no waza] and the next day they leave the school, then all of the secret [hiden] and oral teachings [kuden] of Daito-ryu will flow outside the school and be known to the general public. Out of a thousand pupils, teach the true techniques [honmono] only to one or two. Make absolutely sure of those you choose, and to them alone teach what is real [honmono]. There is no need to teach the rest."
    The text in question does in fact appear to be translated accurately. "Honto no waza" means "the true techniques"; and "honmono" means "genuine", or "real". However, what is not conveyed in these quotes is the intended context of the statements.

    In the paragraph prior to this quote Tokimune recalls how, whenever he taught as his father's representative, if he showed a technique more than once his father would scold him as being "too soft-hearted." Sokaku himself was very strict and disciplined in how he taught the art, and apparently had an ongoing problem with Tokimune wanting to basically "spoon feed" students the teachings because he felt sorry that they weren't getting it. The previously referenced "non-verbal" traditional method (referenced also by Sagawa, Ueshiba and Horikawa) of teaching requires discipline on the teacher's part NOT to just explain to students how the techniques work. Sokaku and many of his senior students appear to have believed that only the most dedicated, serious students would rise to the highest levels of ability in the art, and that spoon feeding the teachings to students would only stunt their ability to use their own senses and brain to learn. Thus, we are back to a perspective of traditional methods of teaching, combined with the history of Daito-ryu as being a conservative art.

    What are the "true" and "real" techniques? The text doesn't make reference to them specifically, but based on the prior sentence warning of "all the Daito-ryu hiden and kuden" flowing outside the school, and to "only teach one or two students the real teachings", it seems obvious to me that they are talking about the Menkyo Kaiden teachings and above. Sokaku issued ONE Menkyo Kaiden (TWO if you include Horikawa), and Tokimune issued TWO Menkyo Kaiden. That sounds a lot like "one or two deshi". Regardless, that doesn't mean that students of all levels are not exposed to various levels of hiden and kuden. For example, the senior members of the Daitokai were clearly exposed to quite a bit of it, even though they were not exposed to the higher levels. This is evidenced in the video tapes they sold, the content of their English website, and the information repeated by their students. Some of it was flat out wrong, but much of it was right. "All the hiden and kuden" is clearly in reference to the one or two students, which we know from history are those Menkyo Kaiden level or above. But a look at the amount of skilled students who have been produced through the various lines of Sokaku's teachings clearly shows that not much was being held back to the right students. There has been an increasing number with each generation who have "it" - not a decreasing number.

    So while the choice of wording in the original Japanese text above may not have been the best choice of wording, I still believe that those familiar with koryu arts and able to objectively apply common sense will still come to the above conclusion when such statements are not removed from the intended (original) context.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Default

    On another thread that was just closed, I was accused of issuing "put downs and lectures" by opening this thread. In this other thread, Dan Harden, believing this thread was directed at him, stated it was "not too friendly". I agreed that it was not the intention of the thread to be "friendly" about the subject, by posting that it "wasn't supposed to be too friendly". However, my response to Dan should not degenerate the intent of this thread into a personal attack on Dan.

    I didn't mention anyone's names in this thread. My intent was simply to advise readers of what I see as a new, growing trend. I decided to post an "open letter" style announcement about it because the tactics being used in these "discussions" are of such a nature that many readers will only walk away confused and irritated. So I advised readers to use *their own* common sense, and to verify claims of training and affiliation independently. If Dan decided to take ownership publicly of this issue for his contribution to this growing trend, then that is on him. But I thought it best to clarify the intent of this thread lest others again warp what I've said into something else.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Default

    I've been thinking about the questions raised in the "Art of Deception" article, and had some further perspective to share. Kondo Sensei was quoted as saying:

    "Tokimune Takeda included in his lessons Aiki-Kempo, the Kendo kata, Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu and other techniques that had no relationship to Daito-Ryu-Jujutsu in order to avoid teaching Daito-Ryu techniques ... When he taught Ono-Ha Itto-Ryu--he would explain it differently from Daito-Ryu techniques. I had a question about this difference, and until that point, no one had asked him, I said, "Sensei, the things you are saying about the sword and Daito-Ryu techniques are different."
    The above is phrased a bit strange, but I suspect it is not as strange as it sounds.

    For example, "Aiki Kempo" is in fact a section of teachings that Sagawa Yukiyoshi also taught. There were two densho that he issued that were related to this section of teaching: "Daito-ryu Aiki Kempo", and "Katshu-ho Hidensho". Both densho refer to Daito-ryu titles in the issuing signature section.

    Sagawa Sensei also taught Kogen Itto-ryu in his dojo parallel to Daito-ryu, and even issued KIR densho to those students that studied it. Some of these densho also refer to Daito-ryu titles in the issuing signature section.

    Based on what we know, Tokimune obviously had a great deal of respect for Sagawa Sensei. He left Daito-ryu to his care when he joined the military, and visited Sagawa a number of times whenever he had problems. They also both traveled with Sokaku at one point to assist him in teaching seminars.

    Sagawa Sensei clearly intended for his Daito-ryu to be a comprehensive bujutsu. I suspect Tokimune tried to follow his example to some degree. When Tokimune created Aikibudo, he included "Aiki Kempo", as Sagawa did, as well as a different line of Itto-ryu kenjutsu - Ono-ha itto-ryu. Ono-ha itto-ryu was the art that Tokimune's father studied, and according to Tokimune, was also the art that was taught along side Oshikiuchi during the Edo period. Sokaku only taught certain weapon work to those who had an interest in them or already had a foundation. But Tokimune indicated numerous times in various interviews that he felt studying swordsmanship in tandem with Daito-ryu was critical to understanding Daito-ryu. He even gave specific examples of how the two are similar.

    In regards to Kendo Kata, Ono-ha itto-ryu was the father art of Kendo. It is not hard to believe that Tokimune may have felt the Kendo kata would be a good primer before entering OIR. Interestingly, another well respected koryu teacher uses the Kendo Kata as a foundation for his koryu sword art here in America.

    So it seems to me that there is a precedent for these three methods mentioned in Kondo Sensei's article, as well as logical reason for incorporating them. Based on what the above article says, it is also possible that Tokimune viewed these additional teachings as not only a way to provide for a more comprehensive foundation for Daito-ryu, but also a way to create more time in which to evaluate the character of his students before teaching them inner-teachings of Daito-ryu. If this is the case, then the above quoted section of Kondo Sensei's article may simply be poorly phrased.

    Hopefully Kondo Sensei will eventually clarify these points for us. But in the meantime, I believe the facts which I've just listed, in conjunction with Tokimune's own interviews, indicate that the "deception" is likely not what some think it is.

    Regards,
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 9th October 2008 at 00:26.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,564
    Likes (received)
    132

    Default Post #8

    Coulda fooled me. Aside from the original (and subsequent) post's complete inaccuracy, misinterpretation and twisting out of context of the intent of that "handful of mixed martial artists," it sure sounds like a thinly veiled screed aimed specifically against one individual.

    Anyone who has followed the abundant threads on the topics of internal training/aiki over the years will likely see through the veil.
    Cady Goldfield

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Default

    Well Cady, you would be wrong.

    This thread is not focused at "one person", since there are a "handful" of people (which is what I wrote in the opening post) that are involved.

    There is no inaccuracy or misinterpretation in this thread. That is the whole purpose of posting it, in fact. Attempts at "discussion" resulted in responses of subterfuge. So rather than continue bickering, I figured we'd let people use their own brains.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    348
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Well, one of these "handful" of people has generously offered customized training regimen's to many other martial artist's, free of charge, and without secret initiation rites. That sounds good to me. I am not much impressed with "high ranks/levels of initiation." I recently received an email from an aikido dojo advertising some event they were having. Something at the 'bottom' of the email caught my eye.

    "The only private Dojo offering authentic Aikido instruction in San Bernardino County?"

    Since my dojo happens to be in San Bernardino County I replied with;
    "Are you sure about that?"

    Dojo-cho's response follows;
    "Are you sure that's not true? If it isn't, i.e., if there are other privately-owned Dojo in the county being run by an authentic 4th Dan or above from Hombu, Yoshinkan, Tomiki or Ki No Kenkyukai, I would be glad to include their names. It would be great to see some of the people claiming authority to teach Aikido at our regional seminars with people like Saotome Sensei etc. too.

    I really don't want us to be exclusive here, but as far as I know, we are. A practice club is not a Dojo - I know, I had one for years as nidan and sandan. There is a Dojo in Palm Springs run by a 2nd Dan who is a former student of mine, so I suppose I should include them...

    Do let me know if you know of any others."


    Wow, color me impressed.

    These "handful" of people you may be referring to have certainly opened my eyes to some things that I should have been considering for a long time. I for one am grateful to them.
    Ricky Wood

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Default

    Ricky,

    I'm sorry you recently had rank thrown in your face, but please don't project that on me. Perhaps if you were on the other side of the issue you might see things differently.

    Anyway, all I've been talking about is:

    1) Training under qualified instructors (which means they are ... qualified) in traditional arts. A serious student in good standing has access to generations of information that has been passed down, and are thus in a position to build upon this knowledge and hopefully develop to an even higher level than their teachers. That's not to say every one of them is skilled, but rather, that the accuracy and depth of teachings in regards to the given art should be reasonably reliable.

    2) Others that claim to teach the *same* things openly based on superficial exposure to various arts, and appear in some cases to be completely unranked in any art despite decades of claimed training. As I've said repeatedly, its not really the rank that is important (outside of an indicator of the level of initiation), it is the fact that either a teacher never thought to issue them rank, or, they never trained formally under anyone long enough to be offered any rank/license. That's not to say these people are UN-skilled, but rather, that they are not in a position to state with authority how their teachings relate to other arts they are not initiated in. They should desist on referring to arts with regards to their own training in which they do not have a right to claim ownership to, and simply call it something else.

    But train however you like. Classical/traditional arts aren't for everyone. Many don't have the patience and long term interest to pursue these arts. I happen to think it is good to jump around a bit and try different arts when starting martial arts. Most of the people I train with have also gone through this phase, and having gotten burned a number of times along the way, it just made finding the older, established bujutsu all the more gratifying.

    I don't know how much the aforementioned applies to you specifically, so take what I wrote in general context. FWIW, there are quite a few people that approach me about training that I refer to MMA based on their stated purpose for training and attitude.

    Good luck with that,
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 9th October 2008 at 21:59.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    The Old Dominion
    Posts
    1,590
    Likes (received)
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Scott View Post
    That's not to say these people are UN-skilled, but rather, that they are not in a position to state with authority how their teachings relate to other arts they are not initiated in.
    To me, this is the key point of the entire discussion.

    In his essay "Renovation and Innovation in Tradition" Ellis Amdur makes a comment related to people who try to "modify" a koryu school before they have attained a menkyo kaiden-equivalent level of understanding of the school.

    For example, an illegitimately innovative individual might eliminate a move in a kata because they imagine itputs them off balance, not realizing that it is supposed to put the person off balance in a form that is a training in recovery of balance, or that a form is really a precursor, designed solely to produce some level of somatic organization and reflexes to carry out the "real" combative method, which will be taught later. (Keiko Shokon, p. 154
    To me, this is the same issue that is currently coming up in these Daito Ryu discussions. You might have individuals-- and I won't beat around the bush; one of the folks that I'm thinking about is Dan Harden-- who have a phenomenal and well-developed understanding of internal power. Everyone I've talked to that has met Dan has testified that he has some really impressive body skills, and I'm prepared to believe that. Heck, I'll be prepared, for the sake of argument, to believe that Dan is leaps and bounds ahead of anyone else on this board in terms of internal power skills. But I've never been very clear on how much, if any, Daito Ryu training Dan has, and from time to time I've seen him make some fairly sweeping statements regarding internal power and its role in Daito Ryu. Now, this immediately raises the question of how much Daito Ryu he actually knows and how qualified he is to make pronouncements on how internal power fits into the overall scheme of Daito Ryu.

    When I see a post that Dan has made on the subject of Daito Ryu, my mind automatically adds the caveat that Dan's opinions on Daito Ryu have to be appreciated as the opinions of someone who is probably a very skilled martial artist with very advanced knowledge of internal principles, but who may or may not know much about Daito Ryu as a system. This is a disclaimer that I haven't seen Dan add to his posts, and there have been a few times when he's seemed to speak very authoritatively on the subject of Daito Ryu. If he has the Daito Ryu training to back that up, I'd love to hear it-- I've always been a bit unclear about how much Daito Ryu Dan has done. If he doesn't have much Daito Ryu background, then he might want to throw in that as a disclaimer when sharing his opinions. And as far as I'm concerned, that's all there is to it. After all, this is the internet-- we all have to make our own decisions when we evaluate which sources we value, and how much authority we ascribe to them.

    As far as exploitation goes, I'm reminded of something my sword teacher said about one of his sensei, Yagyu Nobuharu. He said that Yagyu Sensei wasn't at all concerned about people joining Shinkage Ryu in order to exploit it, to steal its secrets and go off on their own. "Shinkage Ryu was around for centuries before they were born, and hopefully it will be around for centuries after. Let them pillage its secrets if they can; better men than them have tried." I think that we as Daito Ryu practitioners should keep this in mind-- no matter what hype or trends occur today, we have a ryu. If the people who practice the ryu treat it as something to be guarded, to be treasured, to be passed on to those who prove themselves dedicated to it, then what do they have to fear from people on the outside?

    Anyway, that's just my opinion on the matter; y'all can check the subject line below for its value.
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Savoir faire is everywhere!!
    Posts
    2,935
    Likes (received)
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DDATFUS View Post
    and I won't beat around the bush; one of the folks that I'm thinking about is Dan Harden--<snip!>......Dan is leaps and bounds ahead of anyone else on this board in terms of internal power skills. But I've never been very clear on how much, if any, Daito Ryu training Dan has, and from time to time I've seen him make some fairly sweeping statements regarding internal power and its role in Daito Ryu. Now, this immediately raises the question of how much Daito Ryu he actually knows and how qualified he is to make pronouncements on how internal power fits into the overall scheme of Daito Ryu. .
    Of late, and more than once, Dan has said something to the effect of, "I don't do Daito Ryu; I do mixed martial arts.....
    Aaron J. Cuffee


    As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
    - H.L. Mencken

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •