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Thread: Daito ryu USA (John Denora)

  1. #76
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    Default Sad Day

    It is a very sad day in the martial arts when a person can BUY a ninth dan ranking in Daito ryu or any art for that matter and have absolutely no knowledge or training in that art. I have recently started studying Daito Ryu under Jose Lopez (4th dan), Senior Instructor under Okamoto Sensei, who won't even allow himself to be called Sensei and voices that that privilidge comes after 6 th dan ranking. I appreciate his humility. He voices that there is one Sensei and that is Okamoto Sensei. In a Ryu whwere this much respect is rooted and years of training are valued, how can Mr. Denora even be allowed to use the Daito Ryu name without some type of negative legal ramification?
    This is beyond me!
    I would hope that Mr. Denora is admonished by the powers that be for such action.
    Rick Torres, Dojo Cho
    Integrity Defensive Arts
    Victoria, Texas
    www.ksrjujitsu.com
    [/B]

  2. #77
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    Is it not just another hill of beans?

    Ueshiba wore a white belt.

    Others proclaim themselves king of the hill.

    Who wants to perch that high?
    Michael Hobson

    Mukyudoka

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkF
    I have known many lawyers and a few judges over the years but this is the first time I have ever noted one who used his JD to actually prefix him/herself as "Dr."

    He is a flake, and all other discussion aside in this thread, this proves it.


    Thanks for passing on the info, Brian. Very, very interesting.


    Mark
    My uncle is a Superior court judge and has never called himself Doctor, haha. I literally giggle just thinking of him having anyone call him doctor.
    Brian Culpepper

  4. #79
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    Default Update

    Apparently John Denora died of bone cancer at the age of 78 years old about a week ago on August 28th, 2008. An announcement by someone named Daniel Hect, CEO of one of the "Masters Hall of Fame", was recently forwarded to me.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  5. #80
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    I am sorry to hear that news. My condolences to his family and students. May he rest in peace.
    Yours in Judo,

    Brian P. Griffin

  6. #81
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    Even though I did not see eye to eye with mr Denora I do extend my condolences to his family as well as those who were close to him.
    May he rest in peace.
    Rick Torres, Dojo Cho
    Integrity Defensive Arts
    Victoria, Texas
    www.ksrjujitsu.com
    [/B]

  7. #82
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    Default

    Even though I did not see eye to eye with mr Denora I do extend my condolences to his family as well as those who were close to him.
    May he rest in peace.
    These are my sentiments as well.

    I met John on several occasions and despite my entirely different opinions and perspectives, he was at first generous and sincere, and always enthusiastic about DR and budo, so that's how I'll try to remember him.

    Respectfully,

    Brently Keen

  8. #83
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    Default In Reply to Complaints Against Sensei John De Nora

    Well.

    Obviously, I'll have something to say of John De Nora, as I'm his daughter.

    For those of you who don't really know the man and you call yourself martial artists, but you choose to make scathing remarks, you ought to shut your mouths. You have not learned the true nature of the martial arts.

    For those of you who have a genuine interest in actually knowing the man, here is what a long term and well-respected man of the martial arts had to say of him at his memorial service (and mind you, this is not even 1% of what he has accomplished...I could go on and on about his climbing Mt. Fujiyama, serving with masters in Japan, learning Japanese and Chinese). Those who pretend to know him or judge him on a few meetings, are rediculous:

    Bio of my dad, John De Nora, shared at his Memorial Service:

    John led a very full life and will be remembered by many people. A compassionate, insightful person, he never shied away from hard work and was always as ready to learn as he was to teach.

    John had a strong faith in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. He trusted that through the trials in life that God, and God alone, would keep his soul. He knew the weight and responsibility of a life founded on the Truth; he sought to carry out justice and defend those who had no defender.

    John was a lawyer who took on difficult cases, first in the military, being involved with JAG, and then as a civilian attorney. he even went before the Supreme Court.

    John was a Captain in the Marine Corps, and served his country faithfully through tours of duty in Japan, Okinawa, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, and other areas. Many of the details of his military service are classified, but it is enough to say he was a highly decorated officer whose work saved the lives of many men and women.

    John studied directly under Charles Atlas as a young man, and maintained a passion for athletic pursuits throughout his life. Also as a young man, he began to study martial arts under his grandfather's direction.

    Eventually, John became skilled in all areas of combat- from Western swordfighting, boxing, grappling, knife fighting, and marksmanship to the refined fighting methods of Asian Karate, Kung-Fu, Tai Chi Chuan, Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu, and Japanese weaponry.

    In the martial arts community, John may be most well-known for his skills in Daito-Ryu, an art which he dedicated himself to preserving for future generations. He demonstrated Daito-Ryu to audiences around the world, and taught the secrets of the art to those he trusted.



    Rest in peace, dad.

  9. #84
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    BTW, Because my dad had a heart for preserving Daito-Ryu in the states, he encouraged martial artists by giving them membership cards... But, good business and discipleship sense would tell those of you who have such a gift this fact. =) God bless you gentlemen and those aspiring to be such.

  10. #85
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    While John De Nora may have spent a great deal of time grappling and spending time in the martial arts. And, he did, in fact, teach me stick when I was ten years old, this I will say. He cultivated his art. And, I cultivated my through the Word.

    Please consider:

    For those who want to label John De Nora as "Daito-Ryu" or "Judo" or "Jujitsu" or this or that, you should know that he was a fluid man, a man of great creativity and intelligence. Those of you in the arts who have not cultivated relationship in and among all branches are seriously in great want. The word I would use for the man is UNITY. Given he had 68 years to cultivate his passion for the martial arts with focus and integrity, those of you who speak against the man, I offer this:

    1. I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

    Those who condemn are condemning themselves.

    2. Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit.

    3. Out of the abundance of your heart, your mouth speaks.

    4. The tongue of the wise uses knowledge rightly; but the mouth of fools pours forth foolishness.

    5. A wholesome tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit.

    6. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.

    7. A man has joy by the answer of his mouth, and a word spoken in due season, how good it is!

    Your hearts are revealed through your words. Your words will reflect in your actions. And, ultimately, we will all stand before Him to whom each word is weighed.

    The Lord, the King of the Universe, weighs the arts in the balance. He weighs your soul and your heart. And, each of us, will stand before Him. This you know.

    For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

    So, we are all without excuse before Him. For He has already been revealed.

    God bless you, mighty men of valour, who hold your practice in the highest caliber of virtue, in the highest caliber of honor and integrity, and those who do not bow to accusations, whether false or justified thus avoiding the devil's work and the devil's art.

    All glory, honor and power be to the One True God of the Universe. Elohim.

    My final response to accusations made against John De Nora.

    It is finished.

    In His Grace,
    Mary Dawn De Nora

  11. #86
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    Default I hope it's finished...

    Ms. Denora,

    While I realize that you have an emotional investment in this subject, be advised that I will not tollerate inappropriate conduct, such as telling members to "shut their mouths". First and last warning. There are many members here who also serve their countries and society in many ways, and are well respected martial artists.

    1. I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.
    Such a concept works both ways.

    This is not a religious forum, and many here follow belief systems that differ from yourself. It is not within the scope of this website to debate whose God will win in the ultimate Octagon of Truth. Please desist from preaching to our members.

    You're welcome to express yourself on this forum if you can do so appropriately and on-topic, but I would ask that you first consider whether or not it is really in the best interest of your father's memory to surf the internet calling out your father's detractors. I'd prefer not to talk ill about the dead. Many view it as distasteful. But personally, I find the spreading of misinformation on this forum more distasteful.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  12. #87
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    Mr. Scott,

    Whether many of the people in the forum are men or women who have served there country or not is of no consequence when it comes down to character.

    A man of character has no need to defame others.

    So, those who would pretend character, should be silent and learn. Isn't this taught in the martial arts?

    I am sure that you, yourself, would agree if it were you who were being attacked in such a way.

    As for religion. Defaming another whether in the context of martial arts or any other forum goes to the heart of code of conduct, something that seems to be appropriate in this setting. And, btw, defamation is still illegal in this country--the country we serve.

    Obviously, not every person in this string regarding my father believes the defamatory statements made against him.

    If you are choosing to be a moderator, it might be better had you used your same criticism of me upon those who defamed a man, you really know absolutely nothing about.

    Maybe you will consider your own professional code of conduct in this matter.

    Thank you for your time.

    Very truly yours,
    Mary De Nora

  13. #88
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    Default

    Responding or defending questions about licensing and ranking should not be a taboo subject with any instructor. They should be easy to answer, and do not require emotional responses. Your father posted his responses here, and readers are welcome to compare the questions and experiences posed to the answers that were offered in return.

    You state I know "absolutely nothing" about your father, but yet you do not know anything about me, who I train with, and what information I have access to. You may disagree with myself and others because of your family ties, but that does not mean none of us posting know anything about your father - and more importantly, how he has conducted himself over the years.

    Codes of conduct do relate to martial arts, and are a valid topic in forums such as this, but morals, ethics, and conduct are different from strongly expressing specific religious views. Please don't try to confuse them together.

    I'm sorry if you feel my replies to you have been of a "criticizing" nature. Perhaps it is simply not possible for you to post to forums like this objectively.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  14. #89
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    Mary,

    Just for the record, please note that before Nathan Scott posted the notice of John Denora's death, the last post was from August 2006. Since Nathan has posted the notice, I don't think any of the posts would pass for defamation. I'm not defending e-budo, the posters, or John Denora nor do I think any of the aforementioned need defending but if you're going to post with such vigor, you should pay more attention to the details.

    Regards,

    Andrew De Luna

  15. #90
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    Bujutsu vs. Budo

    The first is a killing art, the second is using that art to be a better person.

    I see a lot of attacks here but little of people being better persons.

    John Denora recently passed away. He lived an active life: a captain in the USMC, a lawyer (we wonít hold that against him), a Mason, and a martial artist. He did Judo (how many can say they took falls with Donn Draeger), he did Chinese arts, he did Daito-ryu under Yonezawa sensei (the first to bring over this art in modern times to the U.S.) and he loved talking about the martial arts.

    He was cantankerous, irritable at times, funny, interesting, an old man with an older body, knew a lot of budo gossip, knew some of the skeletons buried where, had some good waza, had some sloppy waza, opinionated to hell, knew how to cause pain, liked to teach, loud, and did I say funny.

    I never received nor wanted paper from Denora sensei, nor studied with him. We talked, he gave me ideas, said some neat things, rambled occasionally, cussed a little, was religious in his own way, and lived a full life to 78. Seems like an achievement to me.

    Some people here are speaking ill of the dead. Well, if you follow an eastern martial art then you might have heard of karma and I think youíre collecting interest.

    There are some hidden agendas going on here, which Iíll let lie dormant (is that lie or lay?) because Iím not a P**tz. I see in this thread insults about a person and his instructor that are unverified, slanted, and knowingly approved by members of this forum. Politics.

    But itís not really important because itís just martial arts politics Ė it doesnít really mean anything because the guy teaching Tae Kwon Do down the street has a full class of kids. and heís driving a BMW. Most who climb the ladder of rank of these archaic arts will never use this stuff in a lethal or near lethal manner.

    What Iíll remember is that there was this guy who liked martial arts just as much as I did, studied with some neat people, taught a little, talked some, and was nice to those who treated him kindly.

    Scott Harrington
    co-author of ďAiki Toolbox: Exploring the Magic of AikidoĒ
    S. Harrington

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