Likes Likes:  0
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32

Thread: A Forlorn Situation

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    314
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickster View Post
    Yes, you were not there.

    I kept sayng that I did not want to. But they kept assuring me otherwise.

    Actually, I didn't think he was going to fall so easily. The pressure was on, and, at first, I was reluctant to do anything. As a martial artist, I remained in control all the way to the strike. Sometimes a little action is needed to curtail such perturbation.
    I was not there either (you can reiterate that fact in your response to this as well). But, simply, why participate in something that, honestly, you know to be BS? What would be the reason? You mention that the "pressure was on", and that you were (at first) reluctant to do anything. There is probably a good reason for this: You instinctively felt that it was not worth your while and that you really had nothing to prove to anyone there and that you could probably easily floor this ignorant chap (which you did).

    At the end of your story, in your first post on this thread, you invite comments with "Any thoughts?" Here are my thoughts:

    Had I been still a teenager, bent on showing my skills to others for whatever immature reasons I may have had, I would have certainly punched this guy at his request. As an older - and I hope - wiser martial artist and professional, I would have walked away from that pointless challenge. But, then again ... I was not there.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Tokorozawa, Japan
    Posts
    1,275
    Likes (received)
    18

    Default

    Heck, I was able to take a full blow to the abdominal region in my late teens. My secret: very basic karate training (lots of v-sits), focussing the tension around the solar plexus, and exhaling at the right time. No one offered to study under me.
    As a side note, I found it was one way of dealing with schoolyard bullies: I'd offer to take their best shot. They generally decided that they didn't want to deal with anyone who could hurt their wrists when they punched him.

    Rickster, my question is are you disturbed that you hit the guy, or that your friend has decided to study under the charlatan?

    If the former, well, we all have to live with our choices. If there is a next time, you'll be able to make a better choice.

    If the latter, it's your friend's choice. He has to live with it.
    Andrew Smallacombe

    Aikido Kenshinkai

    JKA Tokorozawa

    Now trotting over a bridge near you!

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    273
    Likes (received)
    10

    Default

    Honestly, I took no pleasure into the whole ordeal. It is rather lugubrious.
    Richard Scardina

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida, USA
    Posts
    733
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Much ado about nothing. There is all of this hand-wringing going on here about "hurt," and "hurting the guy."

    There is a difference between actual damage and injury versus causing some discomfort to somebody. Sounds to my like he didn't actually damage him; however, the potential for damage was there. Richard, I don't know your rank and/or training level. If you have sufficient training to apply just the right amount of force, then I say give the guy what he is asking you for. If you are not trained enough to apply the force in a safe way, you probably should not have done so.

    Bottom line: the guy asked for it, he received it, and he apparently was not injured. Too bad the recipient and the witness didn't learn anything from it..

    Richard, what have you learned from this, now that you know it also may not work in the future?

    Jeff Cook

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Kingston, Greater South London
    Posts
    306
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Rickster, good on you.

    I regularly played the "You bang me as hard as you can, I'll bang you as hard as I can" game. We called it boxing.

    I got TKO'd by a solar plexus strike during sparring and it taught me a lot. It was a pity because the other guy was dazed by a simultaneous strike I'd delivered to his head, but he stayed on his feet.

    Boxing is dumb, but you learn a lot, and we were consenting adults.

    It's not like you sucker punched the guy or anything. If he couldn't take/evade/parry a punch he knew was coming he shouldn't have been teaching anyone martial arts, and he should have thanked you for the lesson.
    Jonathan Adrian Treloar
    Perception is strong, Sight is weak - Musashi
    Right forearm is strong, Sight is weak - Treloar

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wakefield, limey land
    Posts
    4,373
    Likes (received)
    3

    Default

    Why does the person in the OP seem to be like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&h...&v=oXFCIjk01xA

    Well not the person who wrote it, the alleged KF master of the iron stomach.
    Last edited by william northcote; 25th February 2009 at 10:58.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    320
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    There is all of this hand-wringing going on here about "hurt," and "hurting the guy."
    It's not hand-wringing at all. It is simply that this seemed like a total waste of time. It was obviously a big enough deal in terms of ambiguity that Richard posted here asking for some sort of an opinion on what he did. I simply offered mine that it was not worth the effort to punch this guy to prove a point if it wound up as a "forlorn" and "lugubrious" situation. (These would be adjectives one would want to avoid in terms of voluntary experiences...unless one is really into the British Romantics.)

    If Richard was sanguine about what he did, he wouldn't have posted in the first place. So, it was "Much Ado about Nothing" in terms of a charlatan and a gullible person wanting to study with him. This is pretty mundane and adults can do as they wish.

    I thought the "something" had to do with Richard participating in the first place. That seemed to be the issue to me.

    Sorry if I got it wrong.

    Kevin Cantwell
    Last edited by K. Cantwell; 25th February 2009 at 11:42.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida, USA
    Posts
    733
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Kevin, I am just posting my opinion as you have. Chill.

    Jeff Cook

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    273
    Likes (received)
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Cook View Post
    Much ado about nothing. There is all of this hand-wringing going on here about "hurt," and "hurting the guy."

    There is a difference between actual damage and injury versus causing some discomfort to somebody. Sounds to my like he didn't actually damage him; however, the potential for damage was there. Richard, I don't know your rank and/or training level. If you have sufficient training to apply just the right amount of force, then I say give the guy what he is asking you for. If you are not trained enough to apply the force in a safe way, you probably should not have done so.

    Bottom line: the guy asked for it, he received it, and he apparently was not injured. Too bad the recipient and the witness didn't learn anything from it..

    Richard, what have you learned from this, now that you know it also may not work in the future?

    Jeff Cook
    Jeff, you are correct that I have skill enough NOT to seriously hurt him, but his ego and pride, the foremost.
    Richard Scardina

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    314
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Cook View Post
    Much ado about nothing. There is all of this hand-wringing going on here about "hurt," and "hurting the guy."

    There is a difference between actual damage and injury versus causing some discomfort to somebody. Sounds to my like he didn't actually damage him; however, the potential for damage was there. Richard, I don't know your rank and/or training level. If you have sufficient training to apply just the right amount of force, then I say give the guy what he is asking you for. If you are not trained enough to apply the force in a safe way, you probably should not have done so.

    Bottom line: the guy asked for it, he received it, and he apparently was not injured. Too bad the recipient and the witness didn't learn anything from it..

    Richard, what have you learned from this, now that you know it also may not work in the future?

    Jeff Cook
    Personally, I care very little if the recipient was hurt in the exchange - it was not like he put an apple on his head and said "Ok, shoot it off." Anyway, it was not my point.

    Being deployed overseas and being exposed to various "elite" units - usually in their developmental infancy - we have come across the occasional skills challenge. Unless we are going to make a point as part of a block of instruction, there is little to be gained by comparing long range marksmanship skills with someone who, no doubt, is poorly trained (in comparison), beat the pants off of him (and gain a case of beer in the process) and then to go and treat it as a worthwhile annecdote among team members back at the team house. That will usually get you a smirk followed by rolling eyes as everyone goes back to clean their weapons while watching UFC DVDs. We have more pressing things to attend to.

    My opinion is that the activity was a waste of time. Then, I also don't get this ... if the whole ordeal was "rather lugubrious", then why even post it? Why not just forget it. In fact, I'm going to take my own advice and I'm going to forget it. I have more pressing things to attend to.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida, USA
    Posts
    733
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    I agree Major; dick-measuring contests are a waste of time.

    I got the impression that his "cohort" is a friend of his, and hell, for all we know he felt obligated to go with his friend to try to save him from what he thinks is a charlatan (I don't know if iron-shirt guy is or not). I like to give people the benefit of doubt regarding that type of thing.

    Unlike troops who actually have skills and are naturally prone to compete, there are some snake oil salesmen out there, with little to no real skill, who like to dupe the public, making it more difficult (and embarrassing) for the real-deal folks to do their thing.

    One of your posts about CQC instructors, sir:

    'From my experience, any instructor we get damn well better be able to best all of us "students", whether that's shooting, or hand-to-hand. With shooting, the screening process is fairly easy. I mean, Jerry Barnhart has trained some of us and he's creds are not questionable. It is not really the same with H2H types.

    I'm our unit we have multiple Bronze Star and Silver Star recipients that have certainly fought it out with people trying to kill us. So, we don't have anyone too shy to really punch an instructor in the face if he says "Ok, now hit me." Anyone willing to say that to an operator wearing full kit and "amped-up" from several CQB sessions better be able to do what he says he can do.'

    (Yes, I pay attention and remember most of what you say, sir. You are on my short list of people I pay attention to when it comes to such matters.)

    I equate what Rickster said/did to what I bold-faced from your post above. You and your guys are good at what you do; somebody with the balls to instruct you better be able to do what they say they can do. Same with this situation: Rickster feels he is good at what he does, he had a friend he thought was being duped, the instructor invited to show him his skills to withstand a punch - well, by God, he wasn't too shy to hit him, and that instructor "better be able to do what he says he can do." Apparently he was not.

    I suspect that Rickster, unlike you, I, and others who have been around the block for a few decades having to deal with real-life crap, has the same confidence in his decision he made as we would have. I see his post not as a boast, but as a request to verify that he made the right choice.

    I could be wrong though, sir. It's been known to happen once or twice before. My wife keeps meticulous records.

    Jeff Cook

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    273
    Likes (received)
    10

    Default

    KUDOS! Jeff. You hit the nail on the head in one stroke. Thank you for your informative post. It is nice to come on a forum and not see crazy, "peanut gallery" shenanigans.

    On another note, my cohort was not inculcated. He had inquired about an art to study. After further interview, I referred him to a ruputable and exclusive Judo club.
    Last edited by Richard Scardina; 28th February 2009 at 00:40.
    Richard Scardina

  13. #28
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida, USA
    Posts
    733
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Sounds like it all worked out then. Good deal.

    I wouldn't characterize any of the other replies in this thread as "peanut gallery" shenanigans. Internet forums are an imperfect medium for communication. Sometimes we have to go through some contortions to get to the bottom of things and understand each other. It is also important to allow other folks to own their opinions, even if we don't agree with theirs.

    Jeff Cook

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    314
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Cook View Post
    I agree Major; dick-measuring contests are a waste of time.

    I got the impression that his "cohort" is a friend of his, and hell, for all we know he felt obligated to go with his friend to try to save him from what he thinks is a charlatan (I don't know if iron-shirt guy is or not). I like to give people the benefit of doubt regarding that type of thing.

    Unlike troops who actually have skills and are naturally prone to compete, there are some snake oil salesmen out there, with little to no real skill, who like to dupe the public, making it more difficult (and embarrassing) for the real-deal folks to do their thing.

    One of your posts about CQC instructors, sir:

    'From my experience, any instructor we get damn well better be able to best all of us "students", whether that's shooting, or hand-to-hand. With shooting, the screening process is fairly easy. I mean, Jerry Barnhart has trained some of us and he's creds are not questionable. It is not really the same with H2H types.

    I'm our unit we have multiple Bronze Star and Silver Star recipients that have certainly fought it out with people trying to kill us. So, we don't have anyone too shy to really punch an instructor in the face if he says "Ok, now hit me." Anyone willing to say that to an operator wearing full kit and "amped-up" from several CQB sessions better be able to do what he says he can do.'

    (Yes, I pay attention and remember most of what you say, sir. You are on my short list of people I pay attention to when it comes to such matters.)

    I equate what Rickster said/did to what I bold-faced from your post above. You and your guys are good at what you do; somebody with the balls to instruct you better be able to do what they say they can do. Same with this situation: Rickster feels he is good at what he does, he had a friend he thought was being duped, the instructor invited to show him his skills to withstand a punch - well, by God, he wasn't too shy to hit him, and that instructor "better be able to do what he says he can do." Apparently he was not.

    I suspect that Rickster, unlike you, I, and others who have been around the block for a few decades having to deal with real-life crap, has the same confidence in his decision he made as we would have. I see his post not as a boast, but as a request to verify that he made the right choice.

    I could be wrong though, sir. It's been known to happen once or twice before. My wife keeps meticulous records.

    Jeff Cook
    Jeff, how are you? Good to see you are still "kicking" (or throwing people around).

    If you re-read my post above, you will see this qualifier: "Unless we are going to make a point as part of a block of instruction". So, I respectfully disagree.

    My application of what I posted a while back - which you quoted - is still the same. As when I was posting back then, I was referring to an "instructor / student" exchange - in both instances. Only there do I see this activity as being worth while; mainly because it goes on to make a teaching point and not just showing a guy off. Back to stealth mode.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida, USA
    Posts
    733
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Thank you for the clarification sir. I understand you perfectly now.

    I'm doing alright; still active duty, still a crusty old E7. I turned the 20-year corner last year; I haven't been the subject of a 15-6, so I guess I haven't upset anybody at the puzzle palace too bad. Had a difficult shoulder surgery a little over a year ago, but am still in good shape. The dojos are doing well. I've managed to go to Asia on the government's dime a few times since I last corresponded with you, and to 'Nam on an unarmed civilian EP gig this past May. That was interesting; I only had one intense "encounter" in a Hmong village, about 10k south of the Chinese border. It turned out well for all involved; no injuries. I think it took a few days off of my life though.

    Are you staying on friendly ground for awhile, I hope?

    Jeff Cook

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •