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View Poll Results: Are these authentic?

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  • Yes, they are Traditional

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  • No, samurai never wore anything like what is described

    33 86.84%
  • Never saw these before and can't confirm or refute

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Thread: Are these Traditional Japanese Samurai, Martial Arts Pants?

  1. #1
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    Default Are these Traditional Japanese Samurai, Martial Arts Pants?

    Can anyone confirm whether these pants and the description of how they were made and worn or is this nothing but a martketing scheme?

    http://www.amazon.com/Traditional-Ja...742591&sr=8-50
    "Qasim" Uriah Gardner

    "I'd like to think there are always... possibilities."

  2. #2
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    Quoted from the link

    " We've noticed that a few customers try on these pants and are confused as to why the one leg would be wider than the other. This is not a QC problem or a random error. The wide leg should be pulled so that the normal width leg is taught against the left hip, the excess fabric then pulled to the right and then folded back (the crease being at the right hip) and then the ties wrap forward and tie the pants off in that style. If you look closely at the pictures, you'll notice the extra fabric is folded over on one leg. This is the traditional samurai style. Perhaps it was to hide leg movements while not sacraficing mobility (by wearing a skirt). The negative feedback is disappointing"

    I thought about this a lot before posting. My first response was this style of clothing being "traditional samurai style" was that it was just wrong. But after thinking about it a while, it might actually be the case that in somewhere off the beaten path, some samurai did wear clothing somewhat like this. The modern Kendo-hakama we all wear these days when we train wasn't exactly what people walked around in day to day. Some Koryu schools wear a style of hakama that do look more like pants, such as Asayama Ichiden Ryu (At least I have seen Matsui Kenji and others wear them at enbu in Japan).

    Clothing, like art, and food, were/are highly influenced by locality and culture. Japan was not and is not culturally uniform. Spend time in Hokkaido and then stop in Tokyo and then Osaka, and then trip down to Kyushu and you will see huge variety in food, culture, and lingustic dielect. I still have a hard time talking to my mother-in-law who speaks a dielect that makes it very hard to understand what she and my wife are saying. I often have to ask the wife to shift into Hyoujungo (標準語 The speech patterns used by newscasters and the like, or often thought of as Tokyo Japanese) so I can be sure she isn't talking about me... again.

    I do feel safe stating that the Samurai, and all the various levels of that social class, did not walk around with big ol' kanji on the side of their pants. I can't think of a single period movie where people wore pants of this style either, I would just be comfortable saying that perhaps these pants would better be defined as "A modern spin on a traditional design". But then again, if you look and see what people buy with the pants, it so far has been Animae. Maybe that says something too.

    I just asked the wife what she thought and she is willing to go out on a limb here and say they are 100% untraditional. She said she has never seen anything like these before and then said if I bought a pair I wasn't going to be allowed to wear them in public, or when our children are present. The shame would be too great. The Oyabun of Sampson-Gumi has spoken

    If you buy a pair, be sure to post a photo of yourself in them so we can see how they look.

    Se safe

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Sampson View Post
    Quoted from the link
    ...I just asked the wife what she thought and she is willing to go out on a limb here and say they are 100% untraditional. She said she has never seen anything like these before and then said if I bought a pair I wasn't going to be allowed to wear them in public, or when our children are present. The shame would be too great. The Oyabun of Sampson-Gumi has spoken

    If you buy a pair, be sure to post a photo of yourself in them so we can see how they look.

    Se safe
    I agree with her. No, I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of buying them. I posted that to be sure that I hadn't missed something. The hakama were worn to protect against things like thorns and small brush (primarily horsemen if memory serves).

    Their hakama probably were a little smaller, but of course you today will find hakama of proper or traditional proportions and then those oversized ones that some people wear (probably marketing, as there are people wearing light blue, camouflage black and white prints, etc.) these days.

    Take Care.
    "Qasim" Uriah Gardner

    "I'd like to think there are always... possibilities."

  4. #4
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    Default

    I voted, "No, samurai never wore anything like what is described."

    Okay, there may have been a guy who was of the samurai class who wore something like this once, but there's no historical record of such that I have ever seen.

    And one guy wearing it but it never being adopted as a common piece wouldn't make it "traditional" anyway.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  5. #5
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    Default

    So, how long before we start seeing videos of twirlers/backyard samurai/self-titled soke wearing these pop up on YouTube?
    TSKSR - Kakudokan Kristiansand
    Kendo - Kristiansand Kendoklubb

  6. #6
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    Perhaps it was to hide leg movements while not sacraficing mobility (by wearing a skirt).
    {sic}

    ah the 'hides footwork' ploy....
    Jim Boone

    Flick Lives!

  7. #7
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    Default lazy samurai's hakama?

    maybe this is for the samurai who couldn't keep his pleats (virtues) intact.
    Lawrence Fowler

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Sampson View Post
    I thought about this a lot before posting. My first response was this style of clothing being "traditional samurai style" was that it was just wrong. But after thinking about it a while, it might actually be the case that in somewhere off the beaten path, some samurai did wear clothing somewhat like this. The modern Kendo-hakama we all wear these days when we train wasn't exactly what people walked around in day to day. Some Koryu schools wear a style of hakama that do look more like pants, such as Asayama Ichiden Ryu (At least I have seen Matsui Kenji and others wear them at enbu in Japan).
    The hakama used by the Asayama Ichiden-ryu group in the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai are no-bakama.



    These are similar to the type of hakama worn by attendants at the basho who clean the dohyo during sumo bouts. The modern variants have a zip-fly, whereas I understand older variants from the edo-jidai were crotchless (not open, but with the seams folded into each other.)

    As for the Amazon pants, travesty. Absolute travesty.
    Last edited by Steve Delaney; 23rd March 2009 at 05:02.

  9. #9
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    I wonder if all those negative reviews posted on amazon will encourage the seller to change the product description to something reflecting reality.
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

  10. #10
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    Here's the link to those "pants" on the company website. They have a story attached regarding the samurai and conscription which I wondered, "what is the connection with this and these pants?".

    http://store.mysticclothing.com/Item...-samurai-pants

    A couple of the reviews on Amazon are there and one of them states further that they (the pants) are very Japanese.
    "Qasim" Uriah Gardner

    "I'd like to think there are always... possibilities."

  11. #11
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    I love it when the reviews are all 5-star and 1-star.

    Usually one group knows what their talking about, and one does not.

    Often, the ones who know nothing loudly spew junk that makes me weep for our species ^_^


    Paul Green

  12. #12
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    Mr. Delaney

    Thanks for the image of the skinny-leg hakama... but why did you cut this dude's head off?

  13. #13
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    Default From the Amazon link

    Folks who buy those... er... garments also purchase anime DVDs. Could be that something like those appear in manga and folks just don't know the difference.

    Be well,
    Jigme
    Jigme Chobang Daniels
    aoikoyamakan at gmail dot com

  14. #14
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    I followed the link to the clothing store and sent them an email asking them why the pants were described as "traditional," etc. We'll see if I get a response.
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDATFUS View Post
    I followed the link to the clothing store and sent them an email asking them why the pants were described as "traditional," etc. We'll see if I get a response.
    I noticed that several of us have posted comments on the Amazon page in the last couple of days, too.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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