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Thread: Kukishinden-ryu Bojutsu

  1. #1
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    Default Kukishin-ryu bojutsu

    I'm *very* interested in Kukushin Ryu. I found this great website and I'm still studing it.

    I would like to receive your impressions and opinions about Kukushin Ryu. Why it isn't listed at koryu.com "ryu guide"?
    Last edited by leoboiko; 8th November 2001 at 16:32.
    --Leonardo Boiko

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    Arrow Kukishin ryu

    Hi there!

    "Why it isn't listed at koryu.com ryu guide?"

    In the website Koryu.com it is state that:

    "Please keep in mind, however, that this list is by no means comprehensive. Many of the hundreds of existant classical traditions are not yet listed, so the fact that a school's name does not appear
    means relatively little." (koryu.com)

    But You can ask your question to Mr. Skoss. I have email him a couple of time and he seem like a very nice man.

    I am not sure if I am right, but I think that the Kukishin ryu had a split at some time. Does M. Hatsumi of the Bujinkan is not the Soke of the Kukishin ryu too?? Anybody with more info on this?

    Take care
    Jim

  3. #3
    popupsoldier Guest

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    Yes - many schools, too hard to compile all info on all schools.

    As for the lineage, from what I recall (from reading various sources) the school was passed on to several people one person was Takamatsu another was Minaki (passed on by the same person). Here the lineages have come to the more popularly known Bujinkan/Jinenkan/Genbukan syllabuses as well as the now Kukishin Ryu and Hontai Yoshin Ryu syllabuses.

    But all theses current lineages are all authentic (ie Bujin/Jinen/Genbu and present day Kukishin and Hontai Yoshin Ryu (s))

  4. #4
    KengiF Guest

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    I am not sure if I am right, but I think that the Kukishin ryu had a split at some time. Does M. Hatsumi of the Bujinkan is not the Soke of the Kukishin ryu too?? Anybody with more info on this?
    Yes, there was some sort of split at one time. If you do a search here on e-budo you can find all sorts of stuff on Kukishin/Kukishinden ryu(s).

  5. #5
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    Hi

    If you want to find out about Kukishin ryu history you are in for a huge head ache. Tere are so many branches of the school now.

    The site you found is one of the bettersites and is decended from a branch connected to Ishitani (Ishiya) sensei via Iwami Nagaku to todays line.

    Iwami Nangaku was a friend and fellow student under Ishitani with Takamatsu Toshitsugu (Called Chosui on the kukishin site)

    The Bujinkan, Genbukan, and Jinenkan lines of Kukishin Ryu study are related to Takamatsu to Ishitani.

    From what i have found out the actual Kuki family no longer activiely participate in Martial arts. I have spent a lot of time looking into the history of the Kuki Ryu and its hell. So many lines and connections. Even the Hontai Yoshin Ryu is connected via its Bojutsu.

    On my web site I think you will find 7 soke lists. This may get you started


    http://www.geocities.com/umaryu/Articles/Soke.htm

    have fun - also check the bujinkan and Genbukan formum on e-budo, you wil find more there if you look in the archive
    Paul Richardson - Shidoshi
    Bujinkan Lincoln Dojo

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    Those interested in Kukishin-ryu may find the following book interesting:

    "Kukishin Ryu Bujutsu", by Kiba Koshiro. 2001, Buyu Shoseki Shuppan. English translation of "Kukishin-ryu Bojutsu Sosho: Dai Nippon Goshinjutsu", originally published in 1937. This is volume 1, which centers on Kukishin-ryu bojutsu. Technical manual on rokushakubo and hanbo w/ brief sections on art history, etiquette, etc.

    It looks like this Kiba Koshiro was a student of Takamatsu Toshitsugu line, but the original writing is pretty old and the translation has some nice historical photographs.

    Here is a bit from the history of the art section:

    "In 1336, Ashikaga Takauji placed Emperor Godaigo under house arrest in the former palace of Emperor Kazanin. Kumano Betto Yakushimoru Kurodo was outraged at th treatment of the God Emperor. After sending a request to all members of the Kumano Clan, he secretly led his men to protect the Emperor. Yakushimoru Kurodo asked a relative from his mother's side, named Asonhi no Dainagon, to inform the Emperor of Kurodo's plan and try to save him by sneaking into the palace disguised as a woman. The God Emperor was pleased to hear the news.

    When they were about to enter Yoshino, the rebels fiercely attacked Kurodo, trying to kill him. Kurodo blockec with his yari, but it as cut and broke into two pieces. He continued to fight hard using the broken yari as a rokushakubo. The rebels were unable to get close to him, so they began to attack Kurodo with bows and arrows. At this time, Kurodo used shinden kuji kiri, and the rebels, who numbered in the thousands, were stunned by his sudden god-like aura and retreated in confusion. Kurodo finally succeeded in moving the Emperor to Yoshino Zodo, which became the temporary imperial palace and marked the beginning of the Nancho Era.

    Afterwards, Kurodo continued to deepen his knowledge of bojutsu and created Kuji Kyutsu Kyuju Kyuhon. This is the origin of Kukishin-ryu Bojutsu."
    Regards,
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 2nd June 2006 at 21:35.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  7. #7
    Mekugi Guest

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    This book is an overview of the Shobukyoku Seitei Kata, simply called "Self Defense Techniques". There is also a book on the Taijutsu published. Neat stuff- seitei for sure.
    Kiba Koshiro, who became the fourth head of Shobu Kyoku after Matsubara, was a person with inventiveness. With some corrections to old techniques, he established the standardized Kata "Shobukyoku Seitei Kata" and published a book "Japanese Self Defense Techniques vol. 1: Bojutsu" in 1936 (Sanseido Pub.) 3, making the name Kukishin Ryu well known. Kiba Koshiro also studied under Takamatsu Chosui; besides Taijutsu and Bojutsu, he mastered every field of Kukishin Ryu.
    retrieved June 4th, 2006 from http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/history05_e.htm#n3, Eighth paragraph.

    For information on the founding of Kukishinryu Bojutsu, you can look here:
    http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/history01_e.htm

    As you can see there some errata in the book as the bojutsu really comes from the Naginata.

    Always,

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    Default Kukishinden-ryu Bojutsu

    Does anyone know where I can find a listing of all the Kukishinden bo kata? I have the Moti Nativ dvd, but I believe it only covers ten of the 25. Thanks.

    -Patrick W.
    ~Patrick Wesseler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samurai Radio View Post
    Does anyone know where I can find a listing of all the Kukishinden bo kata? I have the Moti Nativ dvd, but I believe it only covers ten of the 25.
    The 25 are not all the bo kata, just the sabaki gata. There are also the shoden, chuden and okuden levels for this weapon.
    As for a list, there are a few of them around and you should be able to get one easily by googling for it.
    If you want a dvd of the techniques themselves, I believe that the Hatsumi Sensei dvd covers the 25 sabaki gata in their entirety, but I could be wrong as it's been a few years since I've watched it.
    I also believe that a set of Jinenkan DVDs are currently at the editing stage and these will probably cover the other three levels as well.
    John Anderson

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    Thanks for the info. Maybe I just didn't understand or am not remembering correctly from what Nativ's dvd said, but I thought there were 25 bo kata. Thanks very much for the clarification. I was hoping I might find the remaining kata and such online for free (I know...wishful thinking) because the economy has had a negative affect on me and money is tight. $40+ for a dvd isn't something I want to shell out right now.
    ~Patrick Wesseler

  11. #11
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    Patrick,

    You'll find a complete list of the Kukishinden bo kata here:

    www.mbdojo.com/ryukata.html

    along with a whole bunch of other kata.

    With respect
    Dean Whittle
    Sydney, Australia
    www.ninjutsuaustralia.com

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    Thank you very much, Dean! I should have looked on that site to begin with. I actually train with shidoshi Harding when I can make the drive to St. Louis.
    ~Patrick Wesseler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Whittle View Post
    Patrick,

    You'll find a complete list of the Kukishinden bo kata here:

    www.mbdojo.com/ryukata.html

    along with a whole bunch of other kata.

    With respect
    From what I remember (it has been a long time since I was in the Bujinkan... like 15 years ago) this list doesn't look complete. This list is missing the shoden, chuden, ect. The names are a combinition of the kamae names and some of the following words: Kangi, Gogi, Hakugi, ect.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

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    Default re

    A list (perhaps not THE list ), can be seen here:

    http://www.jinenkanstore.com/Articles.asp?ID=128

    Interestingly, the sabaki gata are listed in sequence after the okuden gata.

    James Whelan
    James Whelan

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    Quote Originally Posted by budomuso View Post
    Interestingly, the sabaki gata are listed in sequence after the okuden gata.
    Why is that interesting? That's the way the techniques are arranged.
    John Anderson

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