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Thread: Kukishinden-ryu Bojutsu

  1. #16
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    That's interesting - to me - because noone I've ever spoken to who has trained in the variety of Kukishin ryu bojutsu taught in Kukishinden Happo Hiken has been taught the shoden no kata after the kihon.

    Were you taught the shoden no kata after you learned the kihon?
    James Whelan

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by budomuso View Post
    Were you taught the shoden no kata after you learned the kihon?
    The short answer to your question is no, I wasn't taught the shoden after the kihon but to be honest, the way I was taught the Bojutsu (and everything else) was all over the place, particularly during my Bujinkan days.

    It was a long time ago but if I remember correctly I was probably 'taught' the first couple of the sabaki gata before I covered the kihon in any systematic way. Indeed, the first time I remember being taught that there was a specified set of Kihon was in Japan by Ishizuka Sensei some eight years after I'd started training.

    Of course, I also wasted a lot of time being taught techniques which I was told were 'henka' which were beyond the basics. In reality these were just crap techniques made up by people who I later realised didn't even have a clue about the basics.

    It was only after I left the Bujinkan that I had the chance to study this (or any other) weapon in a systematic way and I had to go back over the stuff I'd missed.

    Quote Originally Posted by budomuso View Post
    That's interesting - to me - because noone I've ever spoken to who has trained in the variety of Kukishin ryu bojutsu taught in Kukishinden Happo Hiken has been taught the shoden no kata after the kihon.
    Given what is found in the different levels of kata, I can see why people would focus only on the Sabaki Gata if the availability of good instruction/information is limited. However, enough people have travelled to Japan over the past 25-30 years that all this stuff should now be readily available.

    If you are studying something, it makes sense to me to do so in the correct order i.e. start at the beginning and follow the material through to the end until its all be covered. Personally, I find it 'interesting' that this isn't done.
    John Anderson

  3. #18
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    Hi,

    I've seen a couple of different lists, including ones said to be Kukishin Ryu, and others with the name Kukishinden Ryu from the same source (implying differing branches, I believe). The Kukishinden Ryu variant has Kamae Gata (9 Kamae), Kihon Gata (4 Kihon), Keiko Sabaki Gata (25 Kata), Shoden no Gata (9 Kata), Chuden no Gata (9 Kata), and Okuden no Gata (9 Kata), with an additional 2 or 3 "kuden" patterns. The Kukishin Ryu list features Kamae Gata (6 Kamae), Kihon Gata (6 Kihon), Kuji no Gata (9 solo Kata), and then Bojutsu Tachi-Ai (24 Kata, repeated on both sides to make 48 Kata).

    The Kata lists for the Kukishinden Ryu Keiko Sabaki section and the Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu Tachi-Ai are incredibly similar, however, the techniques themselves have some large and small differences. To find them, the are the aforementioned DVDs from Hatsumi Sensei and Manaka Sensei, as well as a range of DVDs/CDs from Tanemura Sensei. There is also "the purple book"... Kukishin Ryu Bujutsu - Hanbo Bo Tachi-Ai by Kiba Koshiro, and the Sandan Manual from Richard Van Donk (which contains the entire Kukishinden Ryu syllabus, but written in a way that you should have an understanding of the school/weapon before you start to look at it).

    Good luck, and enjoy.
    Last edited by Chris Parker; 4th April 2009 at 13:40.
    With Respect,
    Chris Parker.

    兵法二天一流剣術 Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Kenjutsu (https://www.facebook.com/MelbKoryuKenjutsuKeikoKai/)
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    熟練道場武道兵法 Jukuren Dojo Budo Heiho (www.budomelbourne.com)

  4. #19
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    HI

    from information I have from one Kukishinden Ryu densho its has Kamae, Kihon gata then the sabaki followed by the Shoden/Chuden/Okuden. There isno Kuden in it.

    In the Shinto Tenshin Ryu Bojutsu Gokui densho I have, the Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu is in it. The Sabaki Gata as we know it is broken up and called Shoden, Chuden. Okuden, there are other sections before and after this with alterations
    Paul Richardson - Shidoshi
    Bujinkan Lincoln Dojo

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by poryu View Post
    In the Shinto Tenshin Ryu Bojutsu Gokui densho I have, the Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu is in it. The Sabaki Gata as we know it is broken up and called Shoden, Chuden. Okuden, there are other sections before and after this with alterations
    That is probably Ueno Takashi's line of Amatsu Tatara Kukishin-ryu bojutsu. Similar in some ways to the Happo Biken of Hatsumi-soke's line but probably much more similar to the Kukishin-ryu bojutsu found inside Takagi-ryu. But as we both know its a garbled mess and confusing who got what and under what name.
    Eric Weil
    "Kuji first, Taijutsu last"

  6. #21
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    There are like two different Kukishin-ryu bojutsu that Ueno Takashi Sensei taught. One of them was included in Tenshin Ko-ryu. This version appears to be just like the kata taught in the Shobukyoku Kukishin-ryu book that Kiba Koshiro wrote. The kamae are the same. At least that is what I seen based on a book that showed the densho (this was a book written by Kunimatsu's students). As some of us know Takeuchi Kikakusai Nobuyoshi and Sato Kinbei learned this from Oba Ichio and taught it to Ueno Takashi.

    The other is the Amatsu Tatara Kukishin-ryu bojutsu and this one seems more in line with what is taught in Kukishinden Happo Bikenjutsu, even though it is broken up into shoden, chuden, ect., but it does not include the Kangi, Gogi, Hakugi, ect.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Kohler View Post
    One of them was included in Tenshin Ko-ryu. This version appears to be just like the kata taught in the Shobukyoku Kukishin-ryu
    HI

    this is correct and my post is to be correct to this.

    I had an email from someone who read the post and they contacted me to say the papers I have are from the Shobukyoku version of Kukishin Ryu
    Paul Richardson - Shidoshi
    Bujinkan Lincoln Dojo

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