LIST OF HIGH-RANKED NON-JAPANESE YUDANSHA

[Yamantaka]

Hello, All!

This is an update in my list of high-ranked non-japanese yudansha in Aikido :

Karl Geis - Fugakukai, Oklahoma, 10º Dan
Shinichi Suzuki – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 8º Dan
Takashi Nonaka – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 8º Dan
Alain Floquet – Yoseikan, France, 8º Dan
Patrick Auge - Yoseikan, California, 8º Dan
Henry Copeland - Fugakukai, Alabama, 8º Dan
W.W. "Mac" McNease - Fugakukai, Texas, 8º Dan
Georges Stobbaerts – Ten Chi Aikido, Lisboa, Portugal, 8º Dan
Amos Parker – Yoshinkai, EEUU, 8º Dan
Michel Soulenq - Aikikai, France, 7th Dan
Christian Tissier – Aikikai, Paris, França, 7º Dan
Gerard Blaize – Aikikai, Paris, França, 7º Dan
Robert Kubo – Aikikai, Hawaii(EUA), 7º Dan
Christopher Curtis – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 7th Dan
Lee Ah Loi - Tomiki, England, 7th Dan
Erhard Altenbrandt, DAB, Alemanha, 7th Dan
Rolf Brand, DAB, Alemanha, 7th Dan
Gerhardt Walter, Aikikai, Alemanha, 7th Dan
Kevin Blok, World Kobudo Federation(Aikido Section), 7th Dan
Giam Pietro Savegango, aikikai(?), Itália, 7th Dan
John Allen - Fugakukai, West Virginia, 7th Dan
Robert Aoyagi - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Charles Caldwell - Fugakukai, Colorado, 7th Dan
Stewart Chan - Seidokan, California, 7th Dan
Chuck Clark - Jiyushinkai, Arizona, 7th Dan
Frank Doran - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Harry Eto - Shinshin Toitsu, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Richard Hirao - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Rianard Jackson - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Tim Joe - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Harvey Konigsberg – Aikikai, EEUU, 7º Dan
Robert Nadeau - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Clif Norgaard - Fugakukai, Arkansas, 7th Dan
Steven Seagal - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
William Witt - Aikikai, California, 7th dan
Harry Wright - Fugakukai, Alabama, 7th Dan
#########################################

Anyone has additions, critiques, objections???
Best regards
Ubaldo.

[R Erman]

Why does this Karl Geis get any mention on these lists? I would laugh at anyone claiming to be a Judan in Aikido, so why have the powers that be allowed his name on this list? If he's "created" his own brand of Aiki fine, but he shouldn't be considered a legit 10th by any regulatory body.

Cheers,



[Edited by R Erman on 02-04-2001 at 09:20 AM]

[Yamantaka]

Originally posted by R Erman
Why does this Karl Geis get any mention on these lists? I would laugh at anyone claiming to be a Judan in Aikido, so why have the powers that be allowed his name on this list? If he's "created" his own brand of Aiki fine, but he shouldn't be considered a legit 10th by any regulatory body.
Cheers,
[Edited by R Erman on 02-04-2001 at 09:20 AM]

YAMANTAKA : Karl Geis is a longtime aikido practitioner and I never heard anything negative about him. He began Aikido in 1957 at Waseda University, with Tsuneko Miyake and later with Kenji Tomiki. He attained a 6th dan with the Nihon Aikido Association (Tomiki) and later created his own style(Fugakukai) at which he attained his present level. There's nothing wrong with creating his own style, whether you're a japanese or not(Ueshiba, Tomiki, Shioda, Tohei and many others did just that). The problem is if you have competence for that. In the opinion of many people, Geis has. His name is registered in Stanley Pranin's Encyclopedia of Aikido.
IMHO
Best regards
Yamantaka

[Joseph Svinth]

Here's a couple lists that might interest you: http://www3.sympatico.ca/crow.stumpy...nsha/main.html
http://www.seikeikan.com/yudansha.htm

Plus two USMAA 8-dans.

http://www.northeastaikikai.com/congratulations.htm

[Matthew Banks]

I feel its arrogant to self nominate a 10th dan to oneself.

Shioda was never ranked 10th dan, but 9th dan. Towards the end of his life he was pronouced mudan, which means ''beyond rank'' I think this is more appropriate. I dont think any head of a major school of aikido, has presented himself 10th dan. That Gary Bennet bloke, who claims to be a 10th dan in his style, when the other styles he said he was affiliated with have not heard of him, ....fraud.


To add to the list...

Soke Thamby Rajah- yoshinkan 9th dan (73 years old) seremban malaysia. ''father of malaysian aikido.
Given 5th dan by soke gozo shioda.

Soke Eddy Stratton- yoshinkan, england ,deceased, awarded 9th dan shortly before his death.




Matt Banks

[R Erman]

Thanks for the short bio on Geis. I appreciate the info. I still can't believe that he is self-promoted though. It does kind of rankle me. Oh well.

Cheers,

[Yamantaka]

Originally posted by Matthew Banks
I feel its arrogant to self nominate a 10th dan to oneself.

Shioda was never ranked 10th dan, but 9th dan. Towards the end of his life he was pronouced mudan, which means ''beyond rank'' I think this is more appropriate. I dont think any head of a major school of aikido, has presented himself 10th dan.
To add to the list...

Soke Thamby Rajah- yoshinkan 9th dan (73 years old) seremban malaysia. ''father of malaysian aikido.
Given 5th dan by soke gozo shioda.

Soke Eddy Stratton- yoshinkan, england ,deceased, awarded 9th dan shortly before his death.
Matt Banks

YAMANTAKA : According to Stanley Pranin, Shioda Gozo was awarded a tenth dan by the Nihon Kokusai Budoin *( International Martial Arts Federation), a respécted organization.
Thank you for your colaboration. This list mentions only living masters, so I won't use Eddy Stratton but Thamby Rajah will be included in my final update.
best to you

[MarkF]

I've heard nothing but good things about Karl Geis, and never knew his grade or position, except as instructor. I noted that (my count may be off as I only went through it the one time for this) nine on this list are nanadan or above in Geis' group.

Since the head of the USMAA, Philip S. Porter, is listed in his organization as "tenth degree" in shihan ryu aikido, much can be opined about those listings and the USMA Hall of Fame.

BTW: As with all things budo, lists change all the time, and I think Ubaldo is going to be updating quite often in the near future.

Hey, Ubaldo!

Mark

[Yamantaka]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MarkF
[B]
Hey, Ubaldo!

YAMANTAKA : Hey, Mark!

Since the head of the USMAA, Philip S. Porter, is listed in his organization as "tenth degree" in shihan ryu aikido, much can be opined about those listings and the USMA Hall of Fame.

YAMANTAKA : As you may observe, I didn't use USMAA's Hall of Fame...

BTW: As with all things budo, lists change all the time, and I think Ubaldo is going to be updating quite often in the near future.
Mark

YAMANTAKA : Updates are quite common everywhere...I just tried to make a list expressing the present moment. Jun Akiyama did the same thing in his Aikiweb site. It's interesting, that's all. I may update it in the future or not. Time will tell.
Best regards

[MarkF]

If it is any concern, one of my favorit lists is "The Book of Lists, by David Wallechinski (AKA Wallace). Lists are fun to make and take apart. This is probably one of the better lists found amoung the E-budo lists, and still it needs constant feeding and dieting to maintain its health.

Personally,I hope you do keep it updated. Lists are great for people who like to go off on lists without knowing the background of the list.

Hey, that sounds a lot like me.

[George Ledyard]

Originally posted by Yamantaka


YAMANTAKA : Karl Geis is a longtime aikido practitioner and I never heard anything negative about him. He began Aikido in 1957 at Waseda University, with Tsuneko Miyake and later with Kenji Tomiki. He attained a 6th dan with the Nihon Aikido Association (Tomiki) and later created his own style(Fugakukai) at which he attained his present level. There's nothing wrong with creating his own style, whether you're a japanese or not(Ueshiba, Tomiki, Shioda, Tohei and many others did just that). The problem is if you have competence for that. In the opinion of many people, Geis has. His name is registered in Stanley Pranin's Encyclopedia of Aikido.
IMHO
Best regards
Yamantaka

I got myself in trouble last time I got in on the ranking discussion. Suffice it to say that if you look at all the other people on that list there are only a small number of highly ranked students from each style of Aikido, their numbers are proportionate to the relative size of the organizations to which they belong, and their experience levels are quite uniform for the ranks which they hold and in many cases would be more than the Japanese counterpart at the same rank. Geis Sensei's rank places him at the top of a list that he doesn't outdo in terms of experience. His organization which is small has a disproportionate number of highly ranked students on the list when compared with other organizations, and I would suspect that their ranks are higher, when viewed from the experience standpoint, than their Japanes counterparts. You can draw what conclusions you wish from that.

[George Ledyard]

Originally posted by Yamantaka
Hello, All!

This is an update in my list of high-ranked non-japanese yudansha in Aikido :

Karl Geis - Fugakukai, Oklahoma, 10º Dan
Shinichi Suzuki – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 8º Dan
Takashi Nonaka – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 8º Dan
Alain Floquet – Yoseikan, France, 8º Dan
Patrick Auge - Yoseikan, California, 8º Dan
Henry Copeland - Fugakukai, Alabama, 8º Dan
W.W. "Mac" McNease - Fugakukai, Texas, 8º Dan
Georges Stobbaerts – Ten Chi Aikido, Lisboa, Portugal, 8º Dan
Amos Parker – Yoshinkai, EEUU, 8º Dan
Michel Soulenq - Aikikai, France, 7th Dan
Christian Tissier – Aikikai, Paris, França, 7º Dan
Gerard Blaize – Aikikai, Paris, França, 7º Dan
Robert Kubo – Aikikai, Hawaii(EUA), 7º Dan
Christopher Curtis – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 7th Dan
Lee Ah Loi - Tomiki, England, 7th Dan
Erhard Altenbrandt, DAB, Alemanha, 7th Dan
Rolf Brand, DAB, Alemanha, 7th Dan
Gerhardt Walter, Aikikai, Alemanha, 7th Dan
Kevin Blok, World Kobudo Federation(Aikido Section), 7th Dan
Giam Pietro Savegango, aikikai(?), Itália, 7th Dan
John Allen - Fugakukai, West Virginia, 7th Dan
Robert Aoyagi - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Charles Caldwell - Fugakukai, Colorado, 7th Dan
Stewart Chan - Seidokan, California, 7th Dan
Chuck Clark - Jiyushinkai, Arizona, 7th Dan
Frank Doran - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Harry Eto - Shinshin Toitsu, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Richard Hirao - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Rianard Jackson - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Tim Joe - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Harvey Konigsberg – Aikikai, EEUU, 7º Dan
Robert Nadeau - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Clif Norgaard - Fugakukai, Arkansas, 7th Dan
Steven Seagal - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
William Witt - Aikikai, California, 7th dan
Harry Wright - Fugakukai, Alabama, 7th Dan
#########################################

Anyone has additions, critiques, objections???
Best regards
Ubaldo.

The first name I can think of that is left off is Andre Nocquet, 8th dan from France. Don't think the list can be complete without him. He is said to be the first foreign student that Morihei Ueshiba accepted.

[Dennis Hooker]

Rank is not a true indication of a person’s ability. Sure it’s a guideline and sometimes the only one we are given to evaluate the ability and authenticity of an individuals clam. However, it leaves so much to be desired. The major issue for me regarding my rank is. it tells me what my teacher thinks of me. In truth, that’s all that matters. In my not so sharp mind, if it means more than that then there is something wrong with you. Look at one of the true old timers who trained with O-Sensei and travailed with him and served as his translator on several occasions. A fellow that teaches as true to his studies under O-sensei as anyone I suppose, Henry Kono Sensei, Canadian. Hell I’ve known the man for more years than I can remember and I don’t even know his rank. He may not have any as far as I know. I don’t think his students have any but he is damn sure the real deal. Look at the late Terry D. I think he never took more rank after O-sensei died, maybe it was not offered I never ask him, but regardless of rank his name should be up there with the most senior.

Take all this rank stuff with a grain of salt. Some of it under serves it’s wearer and some of it is laughable.

Dennis Hooker
Ranker than Some, Not as Rank as Others

[Yamantaka]

Ledyard Sama and Hooker Sama,

You have made quite a few correct points. Anyway, my intention was just to prepare a list of rankings. I did not place any special importance on rankings(the higher the best...) ) and I know that ranking criteria differ between different organizations.
These people belong to existing organizations(some better than others) but they have those grades and that's what I placed there.
Another point : I didn't place ANDRE NOCQUET there because he's dead. As far as I could I put only living non-japanese yudansha in my list.
A last point : One of the best teachers I ever met was a third dan from Germany. Fantastic technique, great education and excellent spirit. In my opinion, comparable with many 6th or 7th Dan. I know an Aikikai 5th Dan that, again in my opinion, is barely equivalent to a 2nd Dan. And one of my friends is a 1st Dan whom I think well deserves a Sandan.
So what ? I didn't put a list of my personal preferences. If I did, be sure you two would be at the top of my list.
Best regards
Ubaldo.

[James806]

Hello all,

I've noticed some consternation about Karl Geis rank of 10th Dan. It seems that many of you could be misinformed. If I remember correctly Karl Geis was promoted to 6th Dan from Tomiki in 1978 (not sure of exact date) and obtained the ranks up to 10th Dan since that time. He was NOT "self-promoted" to my understanding. He was promoted to 10th Dan by a board of at least 3 other high ranking aikidoka. They make up the Fugakukai International Aikido Association. It has been @25 years since his 6th Dan and is seems reasonable to gain 4 grades in 25 years. If you have any other unanswered questions you can refer to his home page at www.karlgeis.com.

There is a link on this site to Geis Sensei's resume. As well as how the Fugakukai was formed.
I don't know if this will sooth all of the problems. But maybe it will be of some help.

James Day