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Thread: Kyokushin tsuki no kata question

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    Question Kyokushin tsuki no kata question

    Regarding the tsuki no kata the Wikipedia article about Kyokushin says: "The kata Tsuki no kata is also unique to the style of Kyokushin karate and styles that derivatives from it. Although there is some debate on who created it, as it is never attributed to Mas Oyama. One common theory is that it was created by Tadashi Nakamura before his parting from the kyokushin organization."

    I think this might be wrong. I found a "kihon tsuki no kata" which was created by a Seigo Tada of Seigokan Goju Ryu. He was a pupil of Chojun Miyagi and a Karate teacher at Ritsumeikan University. Maybe there was a connection to Oyama via Gogen Yamaguchi, who was at Ritsumeikan, too. Does anyone know?

    The kihon tsuki no kata looks similar to Kyokushin/Seido tsuki no kata:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQWvjg3KWmM

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    I know this an old thread, but I have just come across it.
    Steve Arneil's kata book (version 3) mentions where all the kyokushin kata came from, tsuki no is credited as someone else's creation, not kyokushin. I will have a look at the book and come back with more info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireFlea View Post
    Regarding the tsuki no kata the Wikipedia article about Kyokushin says: "The kata Tsuki no kata is also unique to the style of Kyokushin karate and styles that derivatives from it. Although there is some debate on who created it, as it is never attributed to Mas Oyama. One common theory is that it was created by Tadashi Nakamura before his parting from the kyokushin organization."

    I think this might be wrong. I found a "kihon tsuki no kata" which was created by a Seigo Tada of Seigokan Goju Ryu. He was a pupil of Chojun Miyagi and a Karate teacher at Ritsumeikan University. Maybe there was a connection to Oyama via Gogen Yamaguchi, who was at Ritsumeikan, too. Does anyone know?

    The kihon tsuki no kata looks similar to Kyokushin/Seido tsuki no kata:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQWvjg3KWmM
    That is pretty much the information I have, I have copied a description from my book:

    Tsuki No Kata as the name implies means punching kata. The kata teaches the student to generate striking power in any direction. Each time a person punches in this kata, they should imagine that they are breaking down some barrier. The origins of the kata are attributed to Seigo Tada the founder of the Seigokan branch of Gojo-Ryu. He was born in 1922 and studied the essence of Goju-Ryu with Chojun Miyagi. In his style he called the kata Kihon Tsuki No.
    Historically, Seigo Tada did much to transform karate into a competitive sport. He established the rules of competition karate and was awarded several honors. Tsuki No Kata is one of two kata he invented. In some Kyokushin circles, the kata is attributed to Tadashi Nakamura because it is claimed that he introduced it to Kyokushin Karate. However many believe that he brought the kata from his Goju-Ryu background.

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    FWIW

    My teacher was a student of Mr. Tada.

    Yes Mr Tada created two kata Tsuki No Kata ( Which we also refer to as Kihon Kata) and Uke No Kata. Tsuki no kata is also practiced in Kyokushinkai with one major change/addition. I actually like the Kyokushinkai additional move. Also some of the stances are different. But the embussen and hands techniques used are exactly the same.

    At one time both Mr Tada and Mr Oyama were Goju Kai generals and knew each other. They were on very good terms I hear but that is before my time. But who actually brought the kata into Kyokushinkai practice I do not know.
    Last edited by CEB; 14th November 2014 at 16:54.
    Ed Boyd

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    Thanks for that information. I must look up the Goju Kai version, I have only ever seen and practised the KYokushinkai version.

    As far as we are aware (In kyokushinkai circles) and according to Hanshi Steve Arneil, Tadashi Nakamura brought it to Kyokushinkai, but as it was before my time I'm not sure exactly when that happened.

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    When you turn to the front and I believe you do the the Gedan Uke and mae geri..... we don't do that. We just do zenkutsu dachi / seiken tsuki to the front then go to the first shiko dachi /yonhon nukite to the right.

    You added a new move. I like it myself.
    Ed Boyd

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    We also use kiba dachi rather than shiko dachi after the mae geri and seiken (jun tsuki) rather than yohon nukite at that point, our yohon nukite comes after the next turn.
    When I get a chance to go on you tube later I will have a look at your one.

    Thanks again for your input, it's always interesting to compare.

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    Some of the kihon (basic techniques) looks weird to me. Some of the angles were off, The nukite needed to be below the shoulder etc..... a lot of little things.

    IMO this is more representative of what we do.





    PS I may not be current also. My Sensei left Japan in 67. Bill Mok's group and I think the Seigokan in Brazil is an older group. Things may have changed some at the Seigokan while some of us are still doing the old stuff. I'm out of the loop on anything that may have evoled over the last 25 years or so. I don't get out much. The Europeans over all seem to be doing a much harder more external version of Goju from what I can tell. They look a lot like Shotokan to me.
    Last edited by CEB; 17th November 2014 at 22:26.
    Ed Boyd

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    Again thank you, that looks much more recognisable to me.

    As with yourself, my group still do the kata as it was brought to the UK in the early sixties. Even the kyokushin version shown in the clip is fractionally different to ours, I suspect it is from IKO Matsui, as they have made a few minor changes in recent years.
    The kyokushin clip shows a nukite where we use seiken, our only nukite is after the turn, both strikes before the turn are seiken with us.

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