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Thread: Embu: Hontai Yoshin Ryu

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    Default Embu: Hontai Yoshin Ryu

    Demonstrations of Hontai Yoshin Ryu kata, uploaded by this uploader.

    Hontai Yoshin Nage no kata

    Hontai Yoshin Oku no kata

    It looks official..In fact it looks very much like those clips are from the Nihon Kobudo series.
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

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    The demonstrators are Aikiyoshi Yasumoto and Koichi Inoue. Yasumoto has since left the system and is the head of Moto ha Yoshin ryu. Inoue inherited the art from his father and is the current headmaster. Interestingly enough Inoue soke is the one receiving the techniques in these clips.

    Jeff
    Jeff Brown

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    Jeff - that would be proper, so to speak. The senior or teacher takes the ukemi - although it is true that some jujutsu teachers don't want to be seen taking falls . . .
    Best
    Ellis Amdur

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    Tt is from the Nihon Budokan Demo Video.
    Yasumoto Akiyoshi ist the one doing technik. Inoue Kyoichi is doing ukemi.
    Although the senior often is doing ukemi in this case Yasumoto sensei is the senior and Inoue Kyoichi is the Student.

    Yasumoto sensei was Menkyo kaiden from 17. Sôke in Hontai and one of the top teachers that time.
    Kyoichi was (and still is ) the son of his father Inoue Tsuyoshi 18. Soke.
    Now he is 19. Soke, given by his father in 2005.

    Yasumoto sensei left Hontai in 1996 and is teaching now his Line of the Tradition Moto-ha yoshinryu.

    In the time of the video (and also now, some people say) Yasumoto Akiyoshi is the senior.

    Not that easy any time in koryu.
    best

    Tim Weigel,
    Moto-ha yoshinryu Germany

  5. #5

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    I will agree with everyone here as well. In addition, perhaps not in this case, sometimes in Jujutsu ryu the senior(s) are sometimes less inclined to take the ukemi due to their advanced age but I have seen some pretty slick Ukemi from some of the older guys as well. So while these guys may take the senior side during weapons training they sometimes have a younger instructor take the rougher throws or dish them out to you!
    This video footage is definitely from the Kobudo series and probably shouldn't be on the web in this form without permission.
    On a side note, many of the senior teachers in HYR, including Inoue sensei (Kyoichi) and Yasumoto sensei were direct students of Minaki sensei and others before Inoue sensei (Tsuyoshi).

    Best,
    Todd Schweinhart

    WWW.YOSHINDOJO.COM

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    Since this is already a HYR embu topic I'll post two more clips of same ryu.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klkPwrjVmZ0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExviAvkmT1A
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

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    Yes, also HYR, post Yasumoto time.
    And not from the Nihon Budokan embu vido, just to note.

    best
    Tim

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    I read these remarks with great interest and I don’t want to start a discussion on good or better. Nevertheless here some remarks on how I perceive recent history.

    Indeed Ysumoto left the system but a menkyo kaiden leaving the system is not unusual. This is in line with a way of thinking, called ichi ryu ippa. It explains part of the diversity in koryu. When a system had several students at the time a soke retired, all menkyo kaiden, then it happened that one of them became a precise follower and the other one left to establish a branch (ha) or even a new style (ryu). Those who left and started their own schools were many. Although Yasumoto left prior to the succession, it was already clear how this succession would happen.

    There were several menkyo kaiden when the 18th soke (Inoue Tsuyoshi Munetoshi) retired. Some where older than Inoue Kyoichi, like Haraga Hiroshi (who lives in Kumamoto) and Sato Kimimaro (who unfortunately passed away recently). Both received menkyo kaiden from Minaki. I still had the chance to participate in the Nihon budokan taikai together with them. Inoue Kyoichi inherited the soke status from his father in 17th year of Hesei (2005 A.D.). Since I was present at that ceremony, I can assure that both these senior menkyo kaiden recognized him fully as new soke. Sato Kimimaro lead the ceremony and performed a ceremonial iaijutsu kata for the occasion. Once appointed soke, there is no discussion any-more. Independent the age, soke is the highest member of the system and those who don’t like it leave the system.

    I also followed the discussion on receiving techniques but sometimes explanations can be less philosophical. Inoue Kyoichi, who was a direct student of Kanazawa Ichizo and Minaki Saburo (like his father), was known for his superb ukemi ability, which was useful when performing on the wooden surface of the Imazu dojo (where the Nihon Budokan series was filmed). Having participated in embu in places like Miyajima, Kumamoto, Nara, Tokyo, I can assure that it still feels less comfortable to be thrown on wood than on tatami and in most occasions I was lucky not to be uke.


    Guy Buyens, Hontai Yoshin Ryu

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    I appologize.
    It was not my aim to compare the skills of all people involved. Nor was it my aim to make any coment of the sôke status in Hontai yoshinryu of Inoue Kyoichi Muneori. Just to clarify for Mr. Buyens.
    I only wanted to say that Yasumoto Akiyoshi was just another Generation. And at the time of the video Yasumoto sensei was the Senior in age, i dont know about skill, but in position inside of the ryu. He was not the one doing ukemi. Maybe they want to "Look good" in this video and this couple together each man in "his" role of uke and tori works best for this aim.. I know, that they demonstrate together many times each time Yasumoto sensei doing technik and Inoue Sensei doing ukemi. Maybe it just was the way it works best.

    best
    Tim Weigel

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    No need to apologize at all since I was not offended. As I said this is not a discussion on good or better. As a member of Hontai Yoshin Ryu, I only want to express my thoughts on the history. But I realize there are many ways to look at the history (remember Rashomon).

    Also I feel more comfortable being addressed as Guy, rather than Mr. Buyens.

    Guy Buyens, Hontai Yoshin Ryu.
    Last edited by Guy Buyens; 2nd September 2009 at 00:01.

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    Thank you Guy.
    So just Tim is fine.

    Yes, history can be seen in some different ways all the time.

    By the way, do you know when Yamaguchi sensei from Toyama ryu first time teach at Imazu dojo?
    Yasumoto sensei dont teach Toyama ryu at all. But i know Iaikempo an the first two Kata of the Ryu an exercise them from time to time. Just for fun and to keep it in memorie. And some details of that history especially in connection with HYR is quite interresting.

    Tim Weigel

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    Besides Hontai Yoshin Ryu, Inoue Tsuyoshi trained in Kendo, Jukendo and mastered several styles of Iaido. In his youth, he became especially skilled in Jukendo, winning as a member of the best team, the Japan National Tournament and also achieving second place in national-level individual competition twice.

    An important passage in his life was the 23rd year of Showa (1948 A.D.), when he established the Imazu Juyu-kai in order to encourage and train the youth of Imazu district in Nishinomiya city. After the establishment of the Imazu Juyu-kai, he united different budo schools that agreed with his principles.

    Because of his very respectful position in jukendo and his success with the Imazu Juyu-kai he was asked by Kobayashi sensei from Himeji to come and help him out with the dojo. In that time Toyama ryu was in bad shape in Hyogo and Himeji prefectures and thanks to Inoue’s presence things improved. In Showa 51, he and Sato Sensei participated in a demonstration, and this was 2-3 years later.

    From what I know from Inoue sensei, Toyama ryu was created by Nakayama Hakudo, an instructor in the Japanese army with a background in Eishin Ryu. During and after the war, some kendoka who had been Nakayama’s students at one of his dojo’s (the Toyama Gakko in Tokyo) made an effort to preserve Toyama ryu. Amongst them colonel Morinaga, a subordinate of Usawa Kyuzo, a major-general. Yamaguchi Yuuki was another subordinate of Usawa sensei. He was a lower rank than colonel Morinaga but he was known for his excellent sword ability. Later Nakamuro Taisaburo would join the dojo. These men would later lead different branches: Yamaguchi-ha, Morinaga-ha and Nakamura-ha.

    When I was in Japan (1989-1990), I received instruction from Kurishima sensei and Inoue soke, at that time both practicing Yamaguchi-ha.

    Inoue soke has trained also in Eishin-ryu and Mugai Ryu and made a big effort to re-introduce iai-jutsu in Hontai Yoshin Ryu. The previous soke, Minaki soke didn’t teach much iaijutsu, but this was probably because of the time he lived in. Would he had lived in an earlier or later time, he would have probably focussed more on the use of the sword in his teaching.

    Inoue soke insisted in iaijutsu because if one cannot use a sword, bujutsu becomes impossible. Although other parts of Hontai Yoshin ryu like teppo (firearms) and sojutsu have been lost in the curriculum, the use of the sword has been taken up again by the 18th soke, who studied the old skrolls.

    Guy Buyens, Hontai Yoshin Ryu

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    Removed post.
    Michael Reinhardt

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    Thank you Guy

    I know, that Yamaguchi-ha Toyama ryu and Mugai ryu was studied by many Hontai dansha including Sôke and Yasumoto sensei, Sato sensei. . . But i just dont know when Toyama Ryu came in contact with Hontai yoshinryu.
    It is always nice to learn new details, couse after all we are from one source.

    Do you know if Yamaguchi-ha is still be around as a independent branch? Or maybe it is only "betsuden" of Hontai today.

    best
    Tim

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    Tim,

    I don’t think this forum should be a 2 person’s discussion. Nevertheless I ‘d like to set a few things clear because there have been quit some misunderstandings around. Again I don’t pretend to be the only one to possess the truth, I only try to give the interpretation as told by my teachers.

    Yamaguchi-ha Toyama ryu is not part of Hontai Yoshin Ryu. Although both styles have been studied by the 18th soke they have not been mixed. It is true that Inoue’s skills in iai-do (Toyama-ryu, but also other iai-do styles) enabled him to re-define a set of kata within the Hontay Yoshin Ryu system but these are quit distinct from Toyama-ryu. For instance Toyama-ryu doesn't have suwari wasa (often referred to as i-wasa in Hontai Yoshin Ryu).
    Sato Kimimaro in our school, was not only an excellent teacher (especially admired for the exceptional level with kodachi), he was also a remarkable Mugai-ryu teacher. Also he didn't mix schools.
    Again I can not comment on Yasumoto, since I never saw him practice iai-do myself.

    When you say we are from one source, I cannot comment, since I don’t know Moto-ha Yoshin ryu enough. I do know that Yasumoto was a student of Minaki, that he came to the Imazu dojo of the 18th soke and that he was fully licensed in Hontai Yoshin Ryu before creating his own style but again it is not up to me to comment on the relationship between what he is currently doing and what Inoue soke is now teaching. The few times I trained with Yasumoto sensei was when he was still in the system. I respect a lot people’s individual choices but the fact that we follow different students from the same teacher is not enough for us to think that what we now do is still very related. I do know that the current soke of Hontai Yoshin Ryu wants to capture the essence as taught by Minaki soke and Kanazawa Ichizo and is focussed on the preservation of the art as such.

    One final remark, when one refers to Hontai Yoshin Ryu, the abbreviation Hontai is not correct, since Hontai as stand alone doesn’t make too much sense. Hontai can roughly be translated as (true body, true essence) and was added to yoshin ryu by the second soke when he finally came to understand truly the meaning of the Yoshin Ryu he had inherited at a young age from his father (Yoshin Ryu Takagi Ryu).

    Indeed, the legend goes that Umanosuke (the son of Takagi Oriemon ), himself a very powerful man, realised after some time the limitations of a system reliant purely on physical strength (remember how he got defeated by the 3rd generation of Take (no) uchi Ryu, Takeuchi Hisayoshi and requested to be accepted as student). Despite having obtained kaiden from Takeuchi Ryu, Umanosuke felt that he failed for many years to integrate everything in an art that was totally satisfactory. Later, when he travelled to a shrine for 100 days, he received a divine revelation "a willow’s branches can bear the snow". After mastering mental disciplines and concepts he eventually succeeded to master a system that defeated the opponent with a "Willow Heart" (Yo no Shin). From that time on the system was called Hontai Yoshin Ryu Takagi Ryu: “The true essence willow school of the Takagi family”.

    Most probably no soke would have abbreviated Hontai Yoshin Ryu in hontai (occasionally they might have said yoshin ryu) and the use of “Hontai” to refer to our school is a typical Westerner thing.


    Guy Buyens, Hontai Yoshin Ryu

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