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Thread: Senior British Karateka

  1. #1
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    Default Senior British Karateka

    Ok, just for a bit of fun and historical record, let's draw up a top 50 list of the senior living British Karateka (we'll do American another time!)

    Here's a criteria to narrow the field:

    1) Must have been born in the UK and still living in the UK
    2) Must hold the legitimate grade of at least 7th Dan in Karate
    3) Must have been training since before 1965
    4) Must still be actively teaching or studying
    5) Start day of pror to 1965 must be with a formal Karate dojo not learning from books etc

    I'll start off the list witha few that spring to mind, if you want to edit it, copy and paste it into a new message and then the next person can make their edits:

    Terry Wingrove 8th Dan
    Andy Sherry 8th Dan
    Tommy Morris 8th Dan
    Terry O'Neill 7th Dan
    Charles Mack 7th Dan
    Michael Randall 8th Dan
    Roy Stanhope 8th Dan
    John Smith 8th Dan
    Bob Poynton 8th Dan

    Over to you....
    Simon Keegan 4th Dan
    www.bushinkai.org.uk

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    Tony Christian, 8th Dan Goju Ryu Karate-do
    Forfills all the criteria you require. He is still teaching on a weekly basis. He began in Wado Ryu in 1965, though I don't know who his original teacher was, he later trained under Danny Conner and Shiamitsu. He was 'taken in' for a time by the style of ' Mushindo' and 'Nagaboshi Otomo'(!) it's leader. He began in Goju Kai, when it was introduced in 1970, training and teaching with Gary Spiers. Then in Okinawan Goju Ryu, following its arrival a few years later, with the Rousseau brothers and later the man he acknowleges as his Sensei, Teruo Chinen, 9th Dan (Head of Jundokan International). He is currantly the senior instructor and technical director of the British Karate Association.
    Andy
    If you believe in an ideal,you don't own it,it owns you.
    -Raymond Chandler.

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    Also Peter Spanton 8th Dan of the Higashi Karate Kai (My former Sensei) and David 'Ticky' Donovan, who needs no introduction.
    Yours in Budo
    Graham Chuck

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    Default good additions

    Good additions. Peter Spanton and Ticky both started in 65 with Tatsuo Suzuki.

    I thought Tony Christian started a little later though, maybe 66? He started Wado with Danny Connor after seeing an exhibition with Kanazawa and Enoeda in St George's Hall, Liverpool. Enoeda only came to reside in November 65. So I'd be surprised if Tony started in 65, but I'll add him to the list.

    Actually we can add Peter Consterdine too. He started at the aforementioned Danny Connor's Wado club in 1964.

    Here's the list so far then, feel free to ammend....
    .......................................................................................

    Terry Wingrove (8th Dan Karate Jutsu)
    Started: 1957 (previously studied Jujutsu)
    First teacher: Vernon Bell (Yoseikan)


    Andy Sherry (8th Dan Shotokan)
    Started: 1959 (previously studied Jujutsu)
    First teacher: Fred Gille (Yoseikan)


    Tommy Morris (8th Dan Shukokai)
    Started: 1963 (previously studied unarmed combat etc)
    First teacher: Henri Plee (Yoseikan)


    Terry O'Neill (7th Dan Shotokan)
    Started: xxxx
    First teacher: Andy Sherry (Yoseikan)


    Charles Mack (7th Dan Shotokan)
    Started: 1958????
    First teacher: Masatoshi Nakayama????


    Roy Stanhope (8th Dan Shukokai)
    Started: 1962 (previously Judo)
    First teacher: Danny Connor????


    Michael Randall (8th Dan Shotokan)
    Started: 1964
    First teacher: Jimmy Neal & Terry Wingrove (Yoseikan)


    Peter Consterdine (8th Dan)
    Started: 1964
    First teacher: Danny Connor (Wado Ryu)


    John Smith (8th Dan Bujinkai)
    Started: 1965
    First teacher: Tatsuo Suzuki???? (Wado Ryu)


    Ticky Donovan (8th Dan Ishin Ryu)
    Started: 1965
    First teacher: Tatsuo Suzuki (Wado Ryu)


    Peter Spanton (8th Dan Wado Ryu)
    Started: 1965
    First teacher: Tatsuo Suzuki (Wado Ryu)


    Bob Poynton (7th Dan Shotokan)
    Started: 1965
    First teacher: Hirokazu Kanazawa (Shotokan)


    Tony Christian (8th Dan Goju Ryu)
    Started: 1965????
    First teacher: Danny Connor? (Wado Ryu)
    Simon Keegan 4th Dan
    www.bushinkai.org.uk

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    I think the criteria is very constricting, possibly biased and bit of a controversy starter however I know several who qualify and I wonder how they got missed. Let's start with

    Stan Knighton - Shukokai
    Hamish Adams - Wado
    Teruhisa Matsutaka

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    Charles Mack is graded 7-dan by the BJA; his club is the Budokwai. http://www.britishjudo.org.uk/techni...an&number=1017

    But are you sure he's also graded 7-dan in JKA? http://www.books.co.uk/keinosuke_eno...9781874250067/

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    Quote Originally Posted by t.matsutaka View Post
    I think the criteria is very constricting, possibly biased and bit of a controversy starter however I know several who qualify and I wonder how they got missed. Let's start with

    Stan Knighton - Shukokai
    Hamish Adams - Wado

    Hi

    It's not biased (if I was to bias the criteria, I would most likely do so to include my own teachers - as it happens all three of my instructors are excluded by this criteria, as am I obviously) and of the men on the list so far I only know one of them and have only met two of the others. It's not a back-slapping list of my buddies.

    The criteria is supposed to be constricting - I figured if we included only people who started before 1960 we'd be lucky to get five names, if we included everyone who started before 1975 the numbers would probably run into the thousands. 1965 seems like the cusp of the explosion (there's a mixed metaphor!) in Karate's popularity in the UK.

    Pre-1965 keeps the numbers manageable.

    More specific to your suggestions, Stan Knighton 9th Dan should definitely be on there. Don't now why I forgot him. He's pretty synonymous with the early days of Shukokai along with Roy Stanhope etc.

    I don't know much about Hamish Adams (8th Dan I believe?) but he sounds like another good one for the list. Do you have a start date for him?

    My criteria does leave some anomolies. It excludes people like Alfie Lewis - possibly the greatest Karate fighter the country has ever produced but a Lau Gar stylist rather than a Karateka. It also excludes people like Gary Wasniewski ("the world's greatest kicker" apparently) who would seem to hold a tenth dan but I think falls short of the time-served criteria.

    Regarding Joseph's point on Charles Mack - perhaps he doesn't hold that grade in Karate.... Perhaps we should relax that criteria?
    Simon Keegan 4th Dan
    www.bushinkai.org.uk

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    > It excludes people like Alfie Lewis - possibly the greatest Karate fighter the country has ever produced

    Brian Fitkin (1965) would disagree! As would Billy Higgins (1965)
    Teruhisa Matsutaka

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    The list wasn't intended to be exhaustive - we're adding to it as we go along. Re: Alfie vs Billy. I neither know nor care - I was making the point that stylists of other arts (ie Kung Fu) are excluded despite contributions to Karate.


    I'll add your suggestions to the list:
    .................................................................................................... ....

    Terry Wingrove (8th Dan Karate Jutsu)

    Andy Sherry (8th Dan Shotokan)

    Tommy Morris (8th Dan Shukokai)

    Terry O'Neill (7th Dan Shotokan)

    Charles Mack (7th Dan???)

    Stan Knighton (9th Dan Shukokai)

    Hamish Adams (8th Dan Wado Ryu)

    Roy Stanhope (8th Dan Shukokai)

    Michael Randall (8th Dan Shotokan)

    Peter Consterdine (8th Dan)

    John Smith (8th Dan Bujinkai)

    Ticky Donovan (8th Dan Ishin Ryu)

    Peter Spanton (8th Dan Wado Ryu)

    Bob Poynton (7th Dan Shotokan)

    Tony Christian (8th Dan Goju Ryu)

    Billy Higgins (7th Dan Shotokan)

    Brian Fitkin (7th Dan Kyokushinkai)


    That's 17 by my count.... Keep them coming and let's keep it friendly folks. We're not missing anybody on purpose....
    Simon Keegan 4th Dan
    www.bushinkai.org.uk

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    I think what was meant that adding lines like 'possibly the greatest Karate fighter the country has ever produced' is needlessly inflamatory. If you don't know or care then fine let's keep a NPV (as wiki people say)
    Jim Cotter

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    Default nvp

    ok point taken.no disrespect to any other competitors past or present. I'll nvp all the way now. Anymore additions anyone?
    I thought maybe john van weenan or ronnie colwell but can't seem to find start dates. Any ideas?
    Simon Keegan 4th Dan
    www.bushinkai.org.uk

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    Default nvp

    ok point taken.no disrespect to any other competitors past or present. I'll nvp all the way now. Anymore additions anyone?
    I thought maybe john van weenan or ronnie colwell but can't seem to find start dates. Any ideas?
    Simon Keegan 4th Dan
    www.bushinkai.org.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by t.matsutaka View Post
    > It excludes people like Alfie Lewis - possibly the greatest Karate fighter the country has ever produced

    Brian Fitkin (1965) would disagree! As would Billy Higgins (1965)
    The stories I have heard of Fitkin are legendary and I have never set foot in the UK.
    Brian Culpepper

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    Do not forget Shihan Howard Collins 7 Dan Kyokushinkai. Started 1964.

    Michael Söderkvist

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    Good addition Michael. It seems Shotokan and Yoseikan is best documented in the UK.

    I have to say I know very little about the top men in Kyokushinkai (apart from my pal Trevor Gilbert!)
    Simon Keegan 4th Dan
    www.bushinkai.org.uk

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