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Thread: Don't Tell Me Kogusoku Isn't Practical...

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    Default Don't Tell Me Kogusoku Isn't Practical...

    UPDATED: 6:22 p.m.

    The man who struggled to pull a Metro police officer’s gun from his holster in a downtown restroom this morning is expected to be released from Vanderbilt University Medical Center tonight and will be charged with attempted aggravated assault on a police officer.

    Metro Police said the suspect, James Collier, 43, is homeless and has been seen walking around downtown for the past few months.

    He had not caused any trouble prior to today's incident and had no local prior arrest history, police said.


    REPORTED EARLIER

    A Metro Police officer stabbed a suspect in a leg Thursday morning after the man tried to grab his gun in a restroom at the downtown Provence next to the Nashville main library.

    Officer Marty Crowder, a Metro Nashville bike patrol officer, was using the restroom at the restaurant when James Collier came in to the small room, locked the door and went for the gun, said Don Aaron, Metro Police spokesman.

    There was a struggle over the gun and the officer stabbed Collier in the leg with a knife that he is authorized to carry, though it is not issued by the police department, Aaron said.

    Collier was taken to Vanderbilt University Medical Center in critical but stable condition. He did not ever gain possession of the gun.

    Crowder was also transported to Vanderbilt. He was not seriously hurt, police said.

    Aaron said that police officers are trained to protect their firearm at all times.




    http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110722/NEWS03/110722012/Metro-officer-stabs-man-scuffle-over-gun?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

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    Default

    But...but....but...

    Was he using junte-nigiri or sakate-nigiri?

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    Default

    The article doesn't say....

    Long time, no type, Steve....hope you are well!
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Delaney View Post
    But...but....but...

    Was he using junte-nigiri or sakate-nigiri?
    Great. Now I'm hungry for sushi. Thanks.

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    Default Hiya Kit...

    Geez, Kit, next thing you know cops are going to be laden down with standard issue kogusoku, jutte and rope (for hojojutsu), along with their sidearms and tasers!!!

    ...Interesting article. At least the officer survived unscathed, and the attacker wasn't shot to death. So in this case, the knife was valuable in saving two lives.

    Wayne Muromoto

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    Default Yo, Wayne!

    Quote Originally Posted by wmuromoto View Post
    Geez, Kit, next thing you know cops are going to be laden down with standard issue kogusoku, jutte and rope (for hojojutsu), along with their sidearms and tasers!!!
    Now, that might be a bit much, but I would take a jutte over an ASP any day!

    The reason I harp on this so much is simply the fact that by and large, LE training is letting down its officers in situations like this.

    Most LE weapons training is based on the firearms range, and for contact weapons and knife application/defense, on a dueling format. Twirling sticks or the attacker and the officer squared off.

    There is virtually NO systematic, realistic training for these kinds of situations, or for situations like what occurred at Lakewood. Certainly none that seems to embrace the appropriate context issues found in the sen, the maai, the weapons access, etc. that occur.

    Reason I keep harping on it is I do think that what we see in some koryu were attempts to address such contextual issues in their training for their environment. And while clearly informed by what they were doing in sumo, and dojo-storming, and grappling they realized that competitive fighting and combative situations were two very different things.

    I think what LE has lost is the things that apply from one to the other - from competition to combat - and the things that don't, or worse, that could have very bad consequences if you forget what environment you are in right now.

    Koryu would need some serious re-tooling in terms of delivery to make it a worthwhile study for LE. More a pulling out of relevant aspects and applying them under increasing pressure. But that pulling out might be rewarded with some valuable stuff, as opposed to the "easy" way that LE as an industry (maybe martial arts as a whole, where LE gets it from...) seems to continually embrace: fanciful, artistic techniques, trained at half to 3/4 speed, with no meaningful opposing will, and based on a paradigm that LE is in fact trained to specifically AVOID (the duel, whether armed or unarmed).

    Maybe I am seeing more than is there, but I don't think so....
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

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    Default But how to solve it?...

    Kit,

    Agreed, but as we both seem to realize in PMs and here, the really hard thing is how to solve the situation in which training is not relevent? Good koryu training may hint at a way for modern LE defensive training, but as you note, you can't take it lock, stock and barrel as it is. It won't transfer without gross modifications in many techniques...like, you won't be using a long sword, after all. The teaching about the mind set as expressed in the kata; the grounding in concrete combative encounters for the kata...these conceptual things might work.

    Your criticisms of much of modern LE training unfortunately can also be leveled at a lot of koryu training. Since it is more of an "antique," a training system open to more people regardless of age or capabilities, the speed and "reality" of a lot of koryu, too, can often be seen going at slower speed, etc. Even in my regular class, most of my students are not capable of performing at full speed or they will end up hurting themselves and/or their partners through bad technique. There's just a few of my students who can go at it full bore, and in doing so they have fulfilled the goals of that kind of training: they seem to have self-contained the movements in their muscle memory and minds. But we're talking about a lot of students who are doing martial arts as a kind of recreation, a "hobby," so to speak. It's not life or death for them. One would think that LE officers would take to defensive training more seriously because their chances of a violent encounter during the course of their work would be a whole lot more possible?

    I'm actually just thinking of a blog about the way we conceptualize our martial arts, and how half-baked ideas and mental blinders can make us oblivious to the reality of the goals of our training. "Self-defense" is different from "sport," is different from "art"; is different from "entertainment value," and while physical talent is needed in all objectives, they don't necessarily completely overlap. Anyways...Gotta prep...

    Wayne Muromoto

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wmuromoto View Post

    I'm actually just thinking of a blog about the way we conceptualize our martial arts, and how half-baked ideas and mental blinders can make us oblivious to the reality of the goals of our training. "Self-defense" is different from "sport," is different from "art"; is different from "entertainment value," and while physical talent is needed in all objectives, they don't necessarily completely overlap. Anyways...Gotta prep...

    Wayne Muromoto
    I think you're right, and I think the blog is a great idea.

    One thing I have come to see is not only in the way we conceptualize our own training, but how our experience and concept of training affects the way we conceptualize/think about other people's training.

    Lots of misunderstandings and "us" vs. "them" thinking results from this - some recent blogs/postings in some other forums are a perfect example of this.

    Blog away!!
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

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    Default

    Wayne,

    Just wanted to say that I'm glad you have started writing and publishing again.
    As much as we all miss the magazine, I really enjoy your blog posts.

    Thanks
    Doug Walker
    Completely cut off both heads,
    Let a single sword stand against the cold sky!

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