Anything koryu-esque in the Cleveland, OH area?

[No1'sShowMonkey]

Looking for something in the Cleveland, Ohio area.

Any suggestions?

[someguy]

As far as I know the only Koryu in Ohio is from John Viol. He teaches Toyama Ryu and Yagyu Ryu. Im not sure where he is located or how legit all his claims are but you can check him out. http://www.seishinkan.com

[Chris Parker]

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that... Firstly, there is no "Yagyu Ryu", there are systems such as Yagyu Shingan Ryu and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu (which is more properly just Shinkage Ryu, rather than Yagyu Ryu), but no Yagyu Ryu that I know of. Next, Toyama Ryu is a modern system, not a Koryu. And lastly, that site is one that I've come across before, and is so full of red flags, issues, complete misuse of terminology, complete misrepresentation of traditional martial arts, complete errors in knowledge, completely inaccurate information and more that I would avoid them at pretty much all costs. They show ignorance at every turn, really.

The closest I could find was Hakko Denshin Ryu (http://www.hakkojujutsu.com/), which is another modern offshoot of Hakko Ryu, a modern offshoot of Daito Ryu, which is, depending on who you ask, Koryu or a modern form of "koryu-esque" Jujutsu methods.

There is also a "meet-up" group, but I don't recommend them at all. For some understanding as to why I don't think much of them, read the following thread: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...-Koryu-Bujutsu

Don't let the name they use throw you, these guys wouldn't know Koryu if it came up, kiai'ed, and performed the role of Kaishakuin on them....

[giles]

The closest I could find was Hakko Denshin Ryu (http://www.hakkojujutsu.com/), which is another modern offshoot of Hakko Ryu, a modern offshoot of Daito Ryu, which is, depending on who you ask, Koryu or a modern form of "koryu-esque" Jujutsu methods.

I'd recommend at least visiting a Hakko Denshin Ryu class. I've never trained with LaMonica, but do train in another Hakko Ryu offshoot. We are not koryu but I think fall in to a "koryu-esque" grouping (http://www.jujutsu.org.uk/articles/traditional). Certainly a far cry from many sport oriented classes so given the original request perhaps worthy of a visit.

[Chris Parker]

Agreed, Giles. That's kinda what I was getting at, thanks for that.

[someguy]

Like I said Chris I didn't know how legit any of that was. It just seemed the closest I could come up with for him. Thanks for the info on the guy though.

[Richard Stevens]

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that... Firstly, there is no "Yagyu Ryu", there are systems such as Yagyu Shingan Ryu and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu (which is more properly just Shinkage Ryu, rather than Yagyu Ryu), but no Yagyu Ryu that I know of. Next, Toyama Ryu is a modern system, not a Koryu. And lastly, that site is one that I've come across before, and is so full of red flags, issues, complete misuse of terminology, complete misrepresentation of traditional martial arts, complete errors in knowledge, completely inaccurate information and more that I would avoid them at pretty much all costs. They show ignorance at every turn, really.

The closest I could find was Hakko Denshin Ryu (http://www.hakkojujutsu.com/), which is another modern offshoot of Hakko Ryu, a modern offshoot of Daito Ryu, which is, depending on who you ask, Koryu or a modern form of "koryu-esque" Jujutsu methods.

There is also a "meet-up" group, but I don't recommend them at all. For some understanding as to why I don't think much of them, read the following thread: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...-Koryu-Bujutsu

Don't let the name they use throw you, these guys wouldn't know Koryu if it came up, kiai'ed, and performed the role of Kaishakuin on them....

From what I understand, Hakko Denshin is pretty pure Hakko-Ryu. The organization was created by members of the Hakko-Ryu hombu (including the head instructor, Yasuhiro Irie) that left when the headmastership was passed to Okuyama's son, who apparently didn't have the technical skill Irie-Sensei did. Nidai Soke supposedly seemed more interested in making money off the ryu than maintaining it's legacy. So, a number of highly-regarded instructors decided to leave the hombu and they created Hakko Denshin, LaMonica being one of them.

While Hakko Denshin remained pretty pure Hakko-Ryu, Irie's curriculum evolved into what he called KoKoDo Jujutsu.

[Chris Parker]

Yeah, the split is pretty much political. Still makes it a modern off-shoot, though. Hakko Ryu has a fairly unbending rule about not training in anything else, so to claim it as Hakko Ryu itself wouldn't have been correct, as I'm not sure that the Hakko Denshin Ryu follow the same rules, and wouldn't want to imply that they necessarily did.