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Thread: Amatsu Tatara Hichi Buku Goshinjutsu and the Bujinkan and Genbukan

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    Default Amatsu Tatara Hichi Buku Goshinjutsu and the Bujinkan and Genbukan

    Ohayo gozaimasu,

    Hajimemashite,
    I'm new to this forum and I train in Ninpo Bugei.
    I also have a history of taijiquan, Ju-Jitsu, Karate and small amounts of Judo.

    I'm interested in learning about Amatsu Tatara Hichi Buku Goshinjutsu and after reading about it online I've come to realise that the Bujinkan and Hatsumi sensei reference it as Amatsu Tatara Hichi Buku Goshinjutsu and that the Genbukan and Tanamura sensei reference it as Amatsu Tatara Bumon Shumon.

    My question is: "Is there a difference between the two? Or are the different organisations just calling it different things?"

    I believe that they were both taught Amatsu Tatara by Takamatsu sensei (Hatsumi & Tanemura sensei's.

    Does anyone here practice any form of Amatsu Tatara?
    I've also been given a knowing nudge over towards Shiatsu Massage, as a way of getting used to what Amatsu Tatara is all about.

    Sorry for all of the questions!

    Doumo Arigatou Gozaimashita,

    Ninpo88
    Last edited by Ninpo88; 1st December 2011 at 09:38. Reason: Added content
    -T.Bloomfield-

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    Hi James,

    Didn't like the answers you got over on MAP? Okay, I'll add to it here (MAP can be a difficult place to get straight answers...).

    The Amatsu Tatara Hichi Buku Goshinjutsu is the "traditional medicine" concept that Hatsumi teaches on occasion, linked in with Taijutsu aspects and a few other ideas. Shiatsu has some cross-over, but it's not really the same thing.

    The Amatsu Tatara Bumon Shumon taught in the Genbukan is a broader area, with Bumon referring to "martial gate", and Shumon referring to "spiritual gate", meaning that it is a teaching of martial arts and concepts and religious, or spiritual concepts.

    In other words, they're not different names for the same thing in the two Kan's, they are two different things.

    You've already been corrected on the idea of Tanemura learning Amatsu Tatara from Takamatsu, as he only met Takamatsu Sensei once, so I'm not sure why you didn't take that part out of the post. Tanemura Sensei's Amatsu Tatara teachings came from Kimura Sensei and Sato Kinbei Sensei, from memory (Genbukan guys can clarify that, hopefully), who received it from Takamatsu.

    Where Takamatsu got it from is a matter of more contention - according to many in the Takamatsuden lines, it was a higher level of knowledge found in many martial arts, most particularly the Takagi and Kukishin lines, and it is definitely known that there are some Amatsu scrolls in the Kuki family, which were transcribed by Takamatsu. How much was from earlier material, and how much was his own addition is where the contention comes in.... and from there it gets rather complicated.
    With Respect,
    Chris Parker.

    兵法二天一流剣術 Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Kenjutsu (https://www.facebook.com/MelbKoryuKenjutsuKeikoKai/)
    天真正伝香取神道流兵法 Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu (https://www.facebook.com/MelbKoryuKenjutsuKeikoKai/)
    熟練道場武道兵法 Jukuren Dojo Budo Heiho (www.budomelbourne.com)

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    HI

    The Amatsu medicine was featured in passing I believe in one of the old books by hatsumi sensei with some cartoon style drawings. I forget the title. they were basically just some stretching and massage techniques.

    The Amatsu medicine as stated on MAP has been bulked up in recent times with additional material by the teachers and structured into levels.

    Unfirtunately MAP is a junk yard these days. If you notice the moment the Moderator said keep it clean the thread fell to pieces with insults and abuse which is what MAP is only good for these days. The redirection from the thread was a complete joke and another example of 'lets attack someone who is not one of us' . Thankfully a member of the Genbukan did bring it back on track for it to be ripped apart again instantly.
    Paul Richardson - Shidoshi
    Bujinkan Lincoln Dojo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninpo88 View Post
    My question is: "Is there a difference between the two? Or are the different organisations just calling it different things?"
    The medicine/massage (Hichibuku Goshinjutsu) is just a small part of Amatsu Tatara. Amatsu Tatara includes:
    History
    Castle building
    Strategies
    Divination
    Medicine
    Flower arrangement
    Tea ceremony
    Religion
    Martial arts
    ect.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parker View Post
    Hi James,

    Didn't like the answers you got over on MAP? Okay, I'll add to it here (MAP can be a difficult place to get straight answers...).

    The Amatsu Tatara Hichi Buku Goshinjutsu is the "traditional medicine" concept that Hatsumi teaches on occasion, linked in with Taijutsu aspects and a few other ideas. Shiatsu has some cross-over, but it's not really the same thing.

    The Amatsu Tatara Bumon Shumon taught in the Genbukan is a broader area, with Bumon referring to "martial gate", and Shumon referring to "spiritual gate", meaning that it is a teaching of martial arts and concepts and religious, or spiritual concepts.

    In other words, they're not different names for the same thing in the two Kan's, they are two different things.

    You've already been corrected on the idea of Tanemura learning Amatsu Tatara from Takamatsu, as he only met Takamatsu Sensei once, so I'm not sure why you didn't take that part out of the post. Tanemura Sensei's Amatsu Tatara teachings came from Kimura Sensei and Sato Kinbei Sensei, from memory (Genbukan guys can clarify that, hopefully), who received it from Takamatsu.

    Where Takamatsu got it from is a matter of more contention - according to many in the Takamatsuden lines, it was a higher level of knowledge found in many martial arts, most particularly the Takagi and Kukishin lines, and it is definitely known that there are some Amatsu scrolls in the Kuki family, which were transcribed by Takamatsu. How much was from earlier material, and how much was his own addition is where the contention comes in.... and from there it gets rather complicated.
    I'm not too worried about the answers I got on MAP that were derogative or ill-aimed towards my questions, I just thought it'd be good to post my query here too as there was a link to this forum from one of the Genbukan websites I'd visited during my search for an answer

    Thanks for all the info

    Quote Originally Posted by poryu View Post
    HI

    The Amatsu medicine was featured in passing I believe in one of the old books by hatsumi sensei with some cartoon style drawings. I forget the title. they were basically just some stretching and massage techniques.

    The Amatsu medicine as stated on MAP has been bulked up in recent times with additional material by the teachers and structured into levels.

    Unfirtunately MAP is a junk yard these days. If you notice the moment the Moderator said keep it clean the thread fell to pieces with insults and abuse which is what MAP is only good for these days. The redirection from the thread was a complete joke and another example of 'lets attack someone who is not one of us' . Thankfully a member of the Genbukan did bring it back on track for it to be ripped apart again instantly.
    It's a shame that a few individuals have to ruin these things but I've gotten my answers now so thank you


    I'm just interested in looking into Amatsu Tatara and Shiatsu so thought I'd ask around.

    Thanks
    -T.Bloomfield-

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