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Thread: New Kamokuhyo

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL. View Post
    They had the kamoku, but not the tokuhon at hand. Which makes sense, then, I suppose.
    But not a Japanese version of the Kamoku I guess?, since the English doesn't have kanji that is probably what is causing the problem.

    /Anders
    Anders Pettersson
    www.shorinjikempo.net - www.shorinjikempo.se
    半ばは自己の幸せを、半ばは他人の幸せを - 宗 道臣
    "Nakaba wa jiko no shiawase wo, nakaba wa hito no shiawase wo" - So Doshin

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
    Gassho,

    Here I go with another of those "curiosity-questions". I hope someone can give me an answer (not looking at anybody, but I wouldn't mind if I got one from Anders sensei... )
    Ok, I will give it a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
    This time is about "Hiji nuki continued to mae tembin" (as it is mentioned in the kamoku).
    In the original it is listed as 肘抜より前天秤 (hiji nuki yori mae tembin), yori meaning roughly from/to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
    • First, I'd like to know whether this is a unique hokei or is a combination of two different ones. In the kamoku It is listed altogether as a Ryuoken hokei but thinking of it, to me it seems to be a nuki waza (ryuoken) continued by a gyaku waza (or better said, tembin waza).
    In the Kyohan it is listed as number 16 in the Kenkei Ryuoken and here it is only named as "hiji nuki". In the text explaining the technique it says something along the lines that one do the mae tembin to take the opponent down.
    So mae tembin is not a hokei on its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post

    • If it can be considered as two separate hokei, then I also wonder if this "mae tembin"...
      • ...refers to the pin at the end of the technique and then belongs to Kongoken. In this case, I also wonder if it is the same -or has something to do with- "mae tembin gatame" (Kongoken, from the ikkyu kamoku). We practice mae tembin gatame as the "standard" pin after maki gote, when kosha falls on the side, and tembin gatame (ura) as a variation of the same pin when kosha is facing down the floor, but maybe we are wrong. -OR-
      • ...refers to the process of taking kosha to the floor. Then it should belong to Ryukaken kenkei, like okuri yoko tembin.
    I think, someone who can read better Japanese than I can maybe come with a better answer, that in this case the "mae tembin" is just a description of the movement and it is not related to the Kongo ken hokei called mae tembin gatame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
    • Anyway: If they are two separate hokei, it seems strange to me that no one of them appears as a single hokei anywhere in the kamoku; but if they are one "compound" hokei, then what I find strange is that it belongs to Ryuoken. This is because when we find this kind of mix of nuki waza and gyaku/tembin waza (as in ryote okuri gote), the whole hokei is classified as a Ryukaken hokei (after all, almost every Ryukaken hokei "starts with" a Ryuoken one)
    Well, one way to look at it might be to consider the "mae tembin" in the case of hiji nuki to just be the designated ren hanko.
    There is a big relation with the Ryuo ken and the Ryuka ken, hombu did a DVD about this not so long time ago, even if it is only in Japanese it is very good.

    There is another example of a hokei that in the weekly program is listed as 半月返 掬首投 (hangetsu gaeshi sukui kubi nage), the kenkei here says byakuren ken, but if one look one can see that there are two different page numbers referring to where to find it in the Kyohan. This is because this is actually two separate hokei, hangetsu gaeshi is indeed byakuren ken), but the sukui kubi nage is a separate hokei belonging to rakan ken, this shows if one look in the hokei overview in the end where the hokei are listed by kenkei.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
    • Putting apart the matter of the kenkei, I feel the same curiosity with ura gaeshi nage. Does it "exist" apart from gyaku gote? Is it listed by its own anywhere in the Kyohan, or gayku-gote-ura-gaeshi-nage is one single hokei? Do you practice it independently from gyaku gote?
    This is not easy, since it can be a bit confusing sometimes.
    But "ura gaeshi nage" is listed as a separate hokei in the Kyohan. It is number 9 in the first group in the Ryuka ken.
    It can be done after other hokei as well, not only gyaku gote, but it is hard to sort of doing it on its own.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
    Thanks in advance, and my best wishes to all kenshi.
    I hoe that helped a bit, if not ask again and I will try to clarify.

    /Anders
    Anders Pettersson
    www.shorinjikempo.net - www.shorinjikempo.se
    半ばは自己の幸せを、半ばは他人の幸せを - 宗 道臣
    "Nakaba wa jiko no shiawase wo, nakaba wa hito no shiawase wo" - So Doshin

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  4. #33
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    Gassho,

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Pettersson View Post
    ...(all the post)...
    Thank you so much again, sensei. This was another clarifying answer to learn from!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Pettersson View Post
    There is a big relation with the Ryuo ken and the Ryuka ken, hombu did a DVD about this not so long time ago, even if it is only in Japanese it is very good.
    Do you refer to the juho DVDs performed by Arai sensei and Arai Shoji sensei? (少林寺拳法 柔法原理・其の一 and 二) - Or is it another DVD? If so, could you please-please-please tell us if it is on sale by WSKO (and what is the name) so my shibucho can purchase it?

    Once more: どうも ありがとう ございます! (Hope it is well written. Just beginning to study Japanese, still learning the Hiragana...)

    Kesshu.
    Fernando Fernández de Bobadilla
    WSKO Almería Branch - SPAIN

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
    Thank you so much again, sensei. This was another clarifying answer to learn from!
    You're welcome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
    Do you refer to the juho DVDs performed by Arai sensei and Arai Shoji sensei? (少林寺拳法 柔法原理・其の一 and 二) - Or is it another DVD? If so, could you please-please-please tell us if it is on sale by WSKO (and what is the name) so my shibucho can purchase it?
    Yes, that was the DVDs I was referring to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
    Once more: どうも ありがとう ございます! (Hope it is well written. Just beginning to study Japanese, still learning the Hiragana...)
    どう致しまして.

    /Anders
    Anders Pettersson
    www.shorinjikempo.net - www.shorinjikempo.se
    半ばは自己の幸せを、半ばは他人の幸せを - 宗 道臣
    "Nakaba wa jiko no shiawase wo, nakaba wa hito no shiawase wo" - So Doshin

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  7. #35
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    Gassho!

    Two questions about nidan hokei that might be typos:
    - Week 19 has "gyaku tembin dori" which seems to mean okuri tembin dori (from the description and also from the overview at the back, which lists the latter technique but not the former).
    - Hiki muna otoshi (week 23) is described as kosha pulling upper sleeve, but AFAIK it should actually be pulling the lapel (muna meaning "breast", after all), a variation of (or defense against) kata muna otoshi.

    Kesshu,
    ______ Jan.
    Jan Lipsius
    少林寺拳法
    Shorinjikempo
    Humboldt University Berlin Branch

    "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind." Gandhi

  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL. View Post
    Gassho!

    Two questions about nidan hokei that might be typos:
    - Week 19 has "gyaku tembin dori" which seems to mean okuri tembin dori (from the description and also from the overview at the back, which lists the latter technique but not the former).
    - Hiki muna otoshi (week 23) is described as kosha pulling upper sleeve, but AFAIK it should actually be pulling the lapel (muna meaning "breast", after all), a variation of (or defense against) kata muna otoshi.

    Kesshu,
    ______ Jan.
    Yes to both.

    Anders Sensei has corrected these and more in the Swedish kamokuhyo.
    Which I'm using at the moment. It helps to understand Swedish...
    Kari Maki-Kuutti

    www.shorinjikempo.fi

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  10. #37
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    Arigato!
    Imagine how much it would help to understand Japanese!

    JL
    Jan Lipsius
    少林寺拳法
    Shorinjikempo
    Humboldt University Berlin Branch

    "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind." Gandhi

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