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Thread: need help in Osaka

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cron View Post
    Funny that you speak of Katori Shinto ryu and Sugino-sensei as of two seperated things.
    Indeed, moreover I didn’t know there was Katori Shinto Ryu in Osaka, so I don’t understand why someone in Kansai should be frightened by rules, governing schools in Chiba prefecture.

    I do know there is Meifu-Shinkage ryu in Osaka. Although I believe in the past this school has been influenced by katori shinto-ryu, they are a standalone Shuriken school (although they also use Kusari, which is also interesting coming from my HYR background, but I never had the time or the occasion to meet Meifu-Shinkage ryu people).
    Guy Buyens
    Hontai Yoshin Ryu (本體楊心流)
    BELGIAN BRANCH http://www.hontaiyoshinryu.be/

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cron View Post
    Funny that you speak of Katori Shinto ryu and Sugino-sensei as of two seperated things.
    That's not what I said.

    But still: 10 years? Times changed and to make sure that one is able to live in Japan for that period of time? How they wanna judge if you will stay or not?
    "How long do you plan to live in Japan?"
    "10 years, at least."
    "Okay, come on in."

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Buyens View Post
    Indeed, moreover I didn’t know there was Katori Shinto Ryu in Osaka, so I don’t understand why someone in Kansai should be frightened by rules, governing schools in Chiba prefecture.
    That's a weird non-sequitur. I mentioned that some koryu expect long term commitments. Someone asked for examples. I mentioned that it used to be a rule for KSR, and is currently a rule for mainline YSR, which is in Osaka.

    I do know there is Meifu-Shinkage ryu in Osaka. Although I believe in the past this school has been influenced by katori shinto-ryu, they are a standalone Shuriken school (although they also use Kusari, which is also interesting coming from my HYR background, but I never had the time or the occasion to meet Meifu-Shinkage ryu people).[/QUOTE]
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, žonne he ęt guše gengan ženceš longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearaš. - The Beowulf Poet

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Reyer View Post
    I mentioned that it used to be a rule for KSR, and is currently a rule for mainline YSR, which is in Osaka.
    My point is, when living in Japan, it is a great opportunity to get involved with some good budo (whether gendai or koryu) and things should not be over mystified. Of course there are rules to follow and even more so in most koryu. But with the correct attitude, it must be possible to find a good training place where they accept you.

    As for Yagyu Shinkage-ryu, I thought the main dojo was in Nagoya area with the current headmaster of the mainline (Owari line) named Yagyu Koichi Toshinobu (22nd soke), but I can be wrong. Nevertheless if that school is so strict then there must be other opportunities in Osaka.
    I certainly didn’t want to lecture about other schools, I just didn’t see the relationship of KSR or YSR with the question but of course when there is YSR in Osaka, there is one.
    Guy Buyens
    Hontai Yoshin Ryu (本體楊心流)
    BELGIAN BRANCH http://www.hontaiyoshinryu.be/

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cron View Post
    But still: 10 years? Times changed and to make sure that one is able to live in Japan for that period of time? How they wanna judge if you will stay or not?
    Usually this sort of thing is a guideline and not a hard rule. There is no way prove you can even be here for 10 years unless you have permanent residency (in which case you have probably been here for that long already), rather it is an intent thing. I intend to be here at least that long so I will be able to continue long term. Of course not all ryuha are that strict, but many might prefer someone who intends to stick with the ryu beyond a year or two visit while in the area. Like everything, opinions vary among teachers.

    For most, the bigger issue will be how well can you speak Japanese. Either way there is a lot of koryu in Osaka and the Kansai area in general so find something shouldn't be a huge issue. Here is one place to start, although there is plenty not listed here. http://www.nihonkobudokyoukai.org/location/

    Rennis
    Rennis Buchner

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Buyens View Post
    My point is, when living in Japan, it is a great opportunity to get involved with some good budo (whether gendai or koryu) and things should not be over mystified. Of course there are rules to follow and even more so in most koryu. But with the correct attitude, it must be possible to find a good training place where they accept you.
    Sure. And my point is, "How long are you staying in Japan? That'll effect what groups I can recommend you to."

    As for Yagyu Shinkage-ryu, I thought the main dojo was in Nagoya area with the current headmaster of the mainline (Owari line) named Yagyu Koichi Toshinobu (22nd soke), but I can be wrong. Nevertheless if that school is so strict then there must be other opportunities in Osaka.
    Yagyu Koichi-sensei is my teacher. The Yagyukai maintains groups in Nagoya, Tokyo, Kansai, New York City, Hong Kong, and Flagstaff, Arizona. If the OP is staying in Japan long term, I'd be happy to recommend the Yagyukai. If he only plans to be here a year or so, I can't do so. We only have a limited number of uchidachi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rennis View Post
    Usually this sort of thing is a guideline and not a hard rule. There is no way prove you can even be here for 10 years unless you have permanent residency (in which case you have probably been here for that long already), rather it is an intent thing. I intend to be here at least that long so I will be able to continue long term. Of course not all ryuha are that strict, but many might prefer someone who intends to stick with the ryu beyond a year or two visit while in the area. Like everything, opinions vary among teachers.
    Exactly. It's not so much, "You must be here for 10 years." It's more like, "Sorry, we can't accept you if you're only going to be here for a couple years." And it's case by case. If you're from, or intend to return to, a place that has a group, no problem.
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, žonne he ęt guše gengan ženceš longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearaš. - The Beowulf Poet

  6. #21
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    What Josh and Rennis said... Another point to take into consideration, of course, is whether or not one can understand what is being said in the dojo. I did not speak Japanese when I first got to Japan. Fortunately, I had some help with that and, in about eight months, was able to do so. In the meantime, there was a lot fumbling in dictionaries and miscommunications. It makes a good story, anyway.

    On the down side of that is the possibility of really putting one's foot in it, not so much because of linguistic problems, as the attitude on the part of some non-Japanese trainees that it is up to the Japanese to make themselves understandable by folk who are just visiting. Sort of the Ugly Gaijin Syndrome: "Hey, I'm special. I came all the way here to train. Why don't THEY help me out?!"

    I recall one short-term Yagyukai trainee (from Hong Kong, as it happened) who was proudly reciting all of the arts he was studying during his intended six-month stay in Japan: Shinkage-ryu, Tenjin Shinyo-ryu, Katori Shinto-ryu and one other I have forgotten. Yagyu Nobuharu Sensei commented (I was interpreting), "My, you are really busy. Do you really think you can do all of those different schools and learn anything?" The boy replied, "Well, I am only here for a short time, so I must try to learn as much as possible." He completely missed the point. I asked for, and received permission to tell him what Yagyu S. really meant. His response was to become rather defensive and insistant. Shortly after that, he stopped coming to our practice. (It might have been due to the fact that folk in the dojo were not very kind after he gave our teacher attitude.) Sometime later, when I was researching an article on jujutsu, I asked Kubota S. (Tenjin Shinyo-ryu) about the same person, and he said, "Oh, he came several times, but stopped when he found out this art is really difficult and takes a lot of work."

    My point is the same as what Josh and Rennis (and probably Guy, if I understand him correctly) said: every teacher, every dojo is different. Some are easier to join, some not. But it is DEFINITELY up to individuals to fit themselves into the group, to meet the group's expectations and requirements. As the Japanese like to say: "kesu bai kesu..."

  7. #22
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    Default Mugai Ryu Soke

    Guy,

    You are correct in that Nakagawa Soke did not appoint a successor before he died in Jan 1981 (after having previously given hamon to Ishii Gogetsu, whom he had appointed in the mid 1950s. The Mugai Ryu lived on in the Mugai Kai which he had set up. In one of his books which was reprinted about 8 months (Showa 55th) before his death there are 5 people listed as Menkyo Kaiden (Nakatani Takashi - Showa 50th, Shirai Ryotaro - Showa 51st, Toda Motohisa - Showa 51st, Okamoto Yoshiharu - 52nd and Nagasawa Masao - 54th).

    I also have a list of all the Dojo's in the Mugai Kai from 1975 with a further listing of all of the Men no Maki holders (one level below Menkyo Kaiden) at that time. Sato Kimmimaro Sensei was listed as the Shibu-cho of Nishinomiya branch and as Men no Maki. He must have been awarded Menkyo Kaiden later on by one of the other Kaidensha. I know that he was a prominent and senior member of the Mugai Kai and Nippon Iaido Renmei.

    As mentioned, the Mugai Kai continued to live on and was chaired by various Menkyo Kaiden over time. The 5th and current chairman is my teacher, Nakatani Yoshitaro (sorry mis-spelled his first name in my first post). He is Menkyo Kaiden from Toda Motohisa Sensei.

    In 2003 he given Sokeship by the Mugai Kai and Nakagawa Soke's son. There was a ceremony at Koyasan where the Nakagawa family gave him he all of Nakagawa Soke's documents related to Mugai Ryu. Koyasan has special significance to Mugai Ryu as Tsuji Gettan's ihai is preserved there. They have been going there every year in June for decades and I had the great honor and pleasure to join them this year.

    Flemming Madsen
    Flemming Madsen

  8. #23
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    My old friend Nishimoto sensei (who happens to be in the UK at the end of the month for our seminar! woohoo!) teaches MJER in Nishinomiya area at three different dojos, including one in Sannomiya. He also has menkyo kaiden in Jushin ryu.He can put you in touch also with various teachers including Isshikki sensei from Osaka. There are also quite a few europeans at the dojo, which may help you a lot!
    http://www.151a.net/iai/
    Tim Hamilton

    Why are you reading this instead of being out training? No excuses accepted...

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