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Thread: Liu Cheng-De Teaching "Heqi Qin-na"

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    Default Liu Cheng-De Teaching "Heqi Qin-na"

    Here's a nice clip of Chen taichi-chuan stylist Liu Cheng-De teaching how to direct unified internal force ("aiki") into uke. It's on Youku, so unfortunately can't be embedded in the post.

    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjA2MD....3.3-1.1-1-1-2
    Cady Goldfield

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    Thank you Cady, for sharing that interesting and instructive video.

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    Cady,

    I watched the clip, but did not hear or see anything about "heqi qin-na". Is this a term you've created as the Chinese pronunciation of Aikijujutsu, or are you alleging that "heqi qin-na" is the name of a historical art? I don't speak Chinese, but I didn't hear or see anything about "aiki/heqi" ( 合氣 , or any other typical version).

    If you could clarify exactly what it is you are posting it would be great.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Hi Nathan, "Heqi Qin-na" was in quotes because it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek as an equivalent to "Aikijujutsu." What Mr. Liu is doing in the clip is the same body dynamics as aikijujutsu. Interestingly, he lived in Japan for 10 years and taught Chen-style taichi-chuan. During that time, he was approached by two students from Sagawa Dojo who asked him to teach them aiki ("heqi" is the literal Chinese translation), which he did. They were evidently frustrated at not being taught aiki at Sagawa Dojo, and sought out Liu, who has the reputation of being more open in his teaching of internal method.
    Cady Goldfield

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    Quote Originally Posted by muden View Post
    I have noticed on the key word cloud on this forum that terms like aiki and aikijujutsu are among the most popular, which would indicate that many people using this forum are interested in these things.
    Just a comment regarding the tag cloud. The reason it is a lot of Aiki, aikijutsu etc. is probably mostly due to that Nathan has tagged a lot of the threads in the Aikijujutsu forum.
    Nathan has made used of this feature, unfortunately not so many are using the tag function, would be good if more people did so.

    /Anders
    Anders Pettersson
    www.shorinjikempo.net - www.shorinjikempo.se
    半ばは自己の幸せを、半ばは他人の幸せを - 宗 道臣
    "Nakaba wa jiko no shiawase wo, nakaba wa hito no shiawase wo" - So Doshin

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    Thanks for the clarification Cady.

    Also, I haven't looked extensively, but from the little amount I have searched, I've yet to come across a specific reference to "heqi" in CMA using the same kanji as "aiki" in Japan. If aiki (using the same characters) is also a CMA concept, can you provide references to it here? Explaining what heqi is here, if the same term is used in CMA, would seem to be a very good starting place for your CMA/JMA theory.

    As far as "cloud tags", yeah, I have been trying to tag the threads in the AJJ forum when I get to them to enhance search results. The "cloud" things work in a similar way to Meta Tags in HTML. I'm not sure why the tags show up on the main page though...

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Nathan-
    Regarding "heqi": Most Chinese internal martial arts talk about the harmonizing of Yin and Yang... the "internal unification (or harmonizing) of yin-yang forces" .... In English-language discussions about "IUoY-YF", though, it becomes very unwieldy to keep saying all of those words or using the ridiculous abbreviation, so ... either "aiki" or "heqi" (perhaps one could say "ai-qi," though the Mandarin use of "ai" is more like "love" than the Japanese usage here) are the easiest and best word for the job. People coin new words all the time, and some become viral because there is a need for them. It's nice to have access to terms that create common ground on which people can communicate and understand complex concepts.
    Last edited by Cady Goldfield; 28th February 2014 at 18:06.
    Cady Goldfield

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    O.K., yeah I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly that "heqi" was a recent Chineesification of "aiki" for whatever reason. However, if "aiki" exists in CIMA, then isn't there a corresponding term for it? Last I heard on the net "huajin / wajing" (transformed strength) was supposed to be aiki, even though it is a term that uses different characters / meaning.

    Anyway, I find it mysterious that Japanese principles like "roppo" and "tenchijin" exist in CMA using the same characters, but different pronunciation, but "aiki" does not.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Chinese internal systems parse out the qualities or aspects of internal power and aiki into categories of "jings/jins" such as peng-jing, ting-jing, dong-jing, hua-jing, etc. However, the terms can have different interpretations among the different arts... making things even more confusing when people from different disciplines use the same term, differently. :P

    I think that huajin/huajing is not quite the same thing as "aiki." At least, I've never heard or seen it used to describe aiki itself. Aiki is the quality or state of harmonizing/unification of opposite forces (Yin-Yang/In-Yo) that we self-generate within our own bodies. Huajing is (in the tai chi interpretation) transformative or affecting force that aiki produces, and its use to control another body other than one's own. Through your extension of the aiki you're manifesting in your own body into his center of mass, you neutralize and divert his force and power. That neutralizing force is huajing. "Huajing" in some lines of xingyi refers to the stage in a person's training at which aiki and internal power can be manifested at will, instantaneously at whatever point of contact he chooses. In either interpretation, huajing is not itself the aiki, but a product and effect of it.

    I do think, though, that because the Chinese systems have parsed every minute aspect of IP and aiki... and their tactical and strategic uses ... into a laundry list of terms, they may simply have never considered using one blanket term encompassing the whole. To wit (borrowing a laundry list from an old thread on a Chinese internal MAs forum...):

    chan nien (adhering sticking) energy
    ting (listening) energy
    tung (interperating) energy
    tsou (receiving) energy
    hua (neutraliziong) energy
    chieh (borrowing) energy
    fa (issuing) energy
    yin (enticing) energy
    t'i (raising) energy
    chen (sinking) energy
    na (seizing) energy
    k'ai (opening) energy
    ho (closing) energy
    po (dispersing) energy
    p'eng (ward off) energy
    lu (roll back) energy
    chi (press) energy
    an (push) energy
    ts'ai (pull) energy
    lieh (split) energy
    chou (elbow-stroke) energy
    kao (shoulder-stroke) energy
    ts'o (twisting) energy
    ch'uan (breaking) energy
    chuan (grasping) energy
    tsuan (drilling) energy
    chieh (intercepting) energy
    leng (frozen) energy
    tuan (interrupting) energy
    ts'un (inch) energy
    fen (seperating) energy
    tou t'iao (shaky coil) energy
    tou ao (playful shaky) energy
    che tieh (folding up) energy
    ts'a (wiping) energy
    p'i (peeling) energy
    hsu (deceptive) energy
    lin (approaching) energy

    Put them all together and they spell "aiki and IP"... and ways in which to employ them.




    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Scott View Post
    O.K., yeah I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly that "heqi" was a recent Chineesification of "aiki" for whatever reason. However, if "aiki" exists in CIMA, then isn't there a corresponding term for it? Last I heard on the net "huajin / wajing" (transformed strength) was supposed to be aiki, even though it is a term that uses different characters / meaning.

    Anyway, I find it mysterious that Japanese principles like "roppo" and "tenchijin" exist in CMA using the same characters, but different pronunciation, but "aiki" does not.

    Regards,
    Cady Goldfield

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    If you keep in mind that "Qi" referred to in this snippet is metaphoric for the manipulation of energy/force created within the body through a number of technical processes, then it might be a helpful guide (boldface and asterisk are mine, to point out key terms):

    Practice of qigong can realize the union of the inner energies*. Inner Qi flows is like the outside ones, that means circular to a central point in a spiral design circle, like the Taiji drawing.

    For example, before a big storm, many small winds are turning and connecting to each other till they met all together in a big like spiral destructive form. Or within the galaxies of the Universe, it is the same, a central point connected with matters that flows around. For the Qi that flows in our body, the center is the lower Dantian (Qihai) that connect all the Qi flows, and this is the real Heqi (Aiki in Japanese) if you know how to connect them (the flows) to become powerful.


    * The unification/harmonizing of Yin and Yang/In and Yo.

    Link to the above page: http://www.sinoptic.ch/wushu/chenshi_hunyuan.htm
    Last edited by Cady Goldfield; 2nd March 2014 at 04:07.
    Cady Goldfield

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