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Thread: Is this group so boring because anyone with something of interest to say is banned?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk.bruere View Post
    An argument over expense claims by the then (Japanese) Chief Instructor of the British Shorinji Kempo Federation. It's all on this site somewhere unless it has been "revised" from history. There was an agreement to just allow him to retire quietly. Meanwhile another faction at Honbu (WSKO) screamed "Thief!" very publicly and after all the fuss died down most of BSKF was no longer WSKO. Almost all the people here stuck with WSKO (including me), but we are a small minority compared to what was. Similar things have happened in other nations and even Japan, but nobody here will dish the dirt because promotions are controlled by WSKO
    In the end the expense claims argument was settled and he paid 40000 pounds back to WSKO. After the breakup.
    Kari Maki-Kuutti

    www.shorinjikempo.fi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Hi Peter and thanks for the warm welcome,

    As I progress I'll let you know. For now it is very basic things such as body movements. I tend to keep my weight more forward on the front foot when moving, and my forward foot angled out. From my extremely limited experience in Shorinji Kempo, I need to keep my weight back for the movements we were performing. Ukemi is also different. Once I have a few more months under my belt I'll be able to provide better observations. Right now I don't even have the terminology to discuss specifically what we were doing.

    Cheers,

    Steve
    Hi Steve, welcome to E-Budo. I've been a Sleeper Kenshi a long time myself!

    I'm interested in your statement that the movements are particularly different in SK compared to Aikido, because I've always viewed them as reasonably similar in terms of techniques, if not movement. I acknowledge that the Kendo-style stance of Aikido is dissimilar to our more varied stances, but the techniques I always saw as the same thing seen through different lenses.

    In fact, I've always been a little jealous of (Aikikai) Aikido's grouping of techniques into variants of Ikkyo, Nikkyo, Sankyo, etc. whilst I have to deal with 'this is Gyaku gote, only here the opponent's left bumcheek is 5mm higher than before', and other variants I am forced to learn as I proceed up the Dan grades.

    As for Ukemi... IMHO, anyone who isn't doing it in a way that can be done on concrete (i.e. the Parkour guys' way) ain't doing it right.
    JC McCrae

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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk.bruere View Post
    An argument over expense claims by the then (Japanese) Chief Instructor of the British Shorinji Kempo Federation. It's all on this site somewhere unless it has been "revised" from history. There was an agreement to just allow him to retire quietly. Meanwhile another faction at Honbu (WSKO) screamed "Thief!" very publicly and after all the fuss died down most of BSKF was no longer WSKO. Almost all the people here stuck with WSKO (including me), but we are a small minority compared to what was. Similar things have happened in other nations and even Japan, but nobody here will dish the dirt because promotions are controlled by WSKO
    Well, I believe he is still Japanese, not just 'then'.

    And if I could venture an opinion, perhaps no one wants to dish the dirt because it's boring, and political, and not really why any of us started SK for (on either 'side'), though I acknowledge you have just stated to the contrary Dirk.

    I personally wish very much that both sides in the UK could be cordial to one another. It is, after all, the same Art. Gyaku gote, so maligned in the OP, is still Gyaku gote no matter who is performing it.
    JC McCrae

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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jailess View Post
    Hi Steve, welcome to E-Budo. I've been a Sleeper Kenshi a long time myself!

    I'm interested in your statement that the movements are particularly different in SK compared to Aikido, because I've always viewed them as reasonably similar in terms of techniques, if not movement. I acknowledge that the Kendo-style stance of Aikido is dissimilar to our more varied stances, but the techniques I always saw as the same thing seen through different lenses.

    In fact, I've always been a little jealous of (Aikikai) Aikido's grouping of techniques into variants of Ikkyo, Nikkyo, Sankyo, etc. whilst I have to deal with 'this is Gyaku gote, only here the opponent's left bumcheek is 5mm higher than before', and other variants I am forced to learn as I proceed up the Dan grades.

    As for Ukemi... IMHO, anyone who isn't doing it in a way that can be done on concrete (i.e. the Parkour guys' way) ain't doing it right.
    Hi Jame and thanks for the welcome!

    Everything I say has to be taken in context, so I may very well be describing the beginner version of things being taught to me vs what gets taught later. Also I probably have a total of 20 hour Shorinji Kempo training which qualifies me to say basically nothing.

    We called them Ikkajo, Nikajo, Sankajo.. Etc. at first blush what I saw was very similar. But where I am now in experiencing Juho waza, is that it very much focuses on the joint in question, and not on the "connection" between Uke and Shite (sorry Aikido terms.)

    When I say connection, I mean that in the most literal terms. For example, when performing nikajo, I always targeted my opponents knee. The wrist, forearm, shoulder connection always served as a connection to manipulate uke's balance, not as a pain compliance point. (Well not always, but as I gained proficiency). In my previous post I was speaking more towards the goho and body movements, but now I am starting to see some of the Juho differences as well. The Shorinji Techniques so far seem very effective but also seem very focused in pain compliance. Perhaps as I work my way up I will see them differently.

    Honestly, for now it is fantastic. Shorinji Kempo is giving me beginner's mind towards many things which is important, but I do expect at certain points, that I will hit cross roads that further my understanding of both.

    Regarding ukemi, concrete used to be no problem . But I am too fat for that now! Try me again in 6 months .

    Cheers,

    Steve van Maanen

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  8. #20
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    As this thread is the first active thread in ages, perhaps it could be split in two!? With Steve van Maanen's posts about Aikido given a separate thread here in the Shorinji Kempo forum. That way others could join in the fun with their observations regarding similarities and differences between the arts. This would also keep this thread focussed on... whatever it was aimed at being focussed on... for whatever that is worth.
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari MakiKuutti View Post
    In the end the expense claims argument was settled and he paid 40000 pounds back to WSKO. After the breakup.
    Which need never have happened but for the incompetence and infighting at Honbu. It is not an isolated incident in this respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jailess View Post

    I personally wish very much that both sides in the UK could be cordial to one another. It is, after all, the same Art. Gyaku gote, so maligned in the OP, is still Gyaku gote no matter who is performing it.
    Both sides are cordial to each other, and when I have time I intend to train with BSKF occasionally. Whether that will result in any attempt by WSKO to "punish" me is an interesting question. Any directives from Honbu on that one?

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kari MakiKuutti View Post
    In the end the expense claims argument was settled and he paid 40000 pounds back to WSKO. After the breakup.
    This is very interesting. I would consider myself quite close to Sensei Mizuno and was at the centre of what Dirk quite rightly calls the incompetence. The settlement with WSKO has never been discussed within the BSKF due to legally binding confidentiality clauses. So who told you? Is WSKO making this general knowledge?

    It was all such a shame... expenses, ha! Another fun thing was at last years summer camp philosophising in the pub as you do, many of us noticed that we'd been de-friended on Facebook by WSKO members, formally friends, at roughly the same time. Conspiracy theory I claimed! Oh how we laughed.
    Sean Dixie

  12. #24
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    "formally friends" (like, "official" friends?) or "formerly friends" (as in "they used to be" friends).

    I'm not active on Faecesbook. I still don't fully understand it. One aspect I can't get comfortable with is treating all my "friends" as though they are all equal. In Real Life I have some work friends, some family, some good ol' buddies and some historic friends from school - I don't see why they should all have to see my thoughts and randomness on a daily basis. I will contact them as and when the need arises. That way I won't accidentally share things that I might have wanted to keep to a smaller circle of "need to know"s. Perhaps that is a perfectly simple thing to do with FB, I would imagine it must be, but I've never found it.

    Confidentiality clauses. In the age of the internet? Personal integrity and abidance with courts in far-away lands doesn't figure strongly in the universe that shares music files, games, latest blockbuster movies, etc. all without any regard for copyright infringement or national laws. You have to first understand the concept, then force yourself to reject temptation for the sake of the greater good.

    I may be drifting away from the point. Call it a smokescreen, or perhaps just the fog in my tired brain.... I swore I could see Jack the Ripper ducking down those cobbled streets just now. Another conspiracy? I should write this book I've been planning. It details the previously unknown links between Victorian London's most famous murderer, the assassinations of JFK, Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr, the so-called moon landings, Wal*Mart and the McDonald's Happy Meal, WSKO and Patty Hearst, and how they caused the Saudi Royal Family to purchase shares in Toyota and Amazon just before the Tsunami hit northern Japan. It is illustrated with diagrams copied from the walls of temples used by the Knights Templars.
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

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  14. #25
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    David, have you taken over Kimpatsu's job as grammar/spelling Nazi? I've no formal education, deemed 'thick' at school (I'd now be called dyslexic I think) Despite working hard to appear smart enough not to offend anyone practicing the 'thinking man's art' I miss - often. I can't spell - get over it. You don't understand Facebook yet you classify it as faeces? Hmmm.

    You take the pi$$ but it's interesting that despite what you claim, Sensei Mizuno is honouring what has been decided and agreed with the courts and clearly WSKO isn't.
    Sean Dixie

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    Forgive me Sean. I tried to soften the bluntness of my correction by introducing some other elements into my post. I tried to be funny to lighten the mood. It is a weakness of mine, an uncomfortable feeling when things get too serious. I resort to whoopee cushions and clown noses to try and disguise my discomfort. Your point about the agreement is spot on. It had been well observed by those in the know. I didn't know, so I only observed the silence by accident.

    My book about conspiracy theories was going to be self-published through Amazon, but they managed to put bromide in my coffee and I've hardly written anything since then. I'll have to add Nescafe to the list of collaborators. I'm not sure whether Dirk is trying to steal my idea or whether he's part of it too....





    You may choose to add , or according to personal taste.

    ps. I strongly support the principal espused by Kimpatsu, of offering corrections as a friendly and supportive gesture. I welcome corrections from anyone who sees errors in my posts - there are many. I prefer to have my faults pointed out to me, but I'm aware that not everyone has that view. Sorry Sean, it was not intended to offend.
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  16. #27
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    Anyone care to comment on our Dear Leader's extravagant tastes, as befits the CEO of a large Japanese multinational corporation?

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    I'll PM you David.
    Sean Dixie

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    It'll never happen Dirk, too much to lose re gradings wise. To be honest, if we hadn't split I'm sure the voices on our side would come up with perfectly exceptable explanations as to her spending habits.
    Sean Dixie

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    Actually, I am still with WSKO. However, I have nothing to lose worth losing with regards to SK, or rather, there is nothing that can be taken away that I would miss. All the benefits have long ago been internalized. So, I am free to comment and occasionally let people know a few of the details of what goes on at Honbu. Zero State has long arms...

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