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Thread: How Fast It Happens

  1. #1
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    Default How Fast It Happens

    http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...-traffic-stop/

    Some key suspicious indicators are present on the approach - note how the officer makes another approach once engaged in conversation despite those indicators.

    And how fast the gun comes up...
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

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    Default

    "Sorry, the page you requested was not found. Please check the URL for proper spelling and capitalization."
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Cool

    That was quick, especially after the subject showed his hands twice. However he still did not comply with instructions. The officer probably shouldn't have approached after backing off, but I wasn't there.
    With respect,
    Mitch Saret

  6. #5
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    Mitch - exactly. Here is a slightly expanded version of how I broke it down on another forum:

    Indicators:

    This guy is hinky from the start. The way he puts his hands out and rapidly brings them back is very telling. Note that he also does not put his hands on the steering wheel when asked. Not even knowing that he had a gun, these two things should be major warning bells.

    There I would tell him he needed to put his hands outside the car and keep them there. If he got argumentative I'd tell him his actions were making me nervous and I had other officers on the way and needed him to do that for me and everything would be okay.

    His compliance/non-compliance would be another indicator.

    I'd move further to the left rear corner, making it harder for him to get an angle to see me or pop up and shoot very well. Not really cover but where he is at the only thing the engine block is covering is his legs.

    The comment that he was waiting for someone at the storage unit seemed like a ruse, but hard to know in that moment. It definitely caused divided attention, and the officer now has to pay attention to that area as well because there may be a second subject.

    More reactionary gap is therefore also good.

    The brake lights going on and off are another thing. I actually was expecting the truck to reverse and then the shooting happen.

    The cop picks up on it and asks the guy if the truck is in gear just before the shooting. The problem is he had already gone into investigation mode and was being drawn in and not reacting to the cues he obviously was picking up on, perhaps even subconsciously. He's asking about who the guy is waiting for, if the truck is in gear, and the man has not yet complied with showing his hands. The officer's prioritizing got confused.

    This is why you cannot engage in discussions with people who unknown contacts, and from an officer's perspective, already non-compliant. Especially not before they acknowledge your request to show hands. You can't pay attention to two things at once, and when you start getting wrapped up in the conversation, your mind is captured by the discussion and not the tactical priorities that should happen first.

    First things first.


    Lastly, not an ideal response to getting shot in the chest. But if there is one, I know that one can only hope that they could even come close to it. I hesitated to really go there because it is such an individual thing.

    I would certainly encourage a warrior mindset and righteous indignation to getting shot, but we can only know what we would do once we have been there. The shock was probably overwhelming for this officer, that is I assume why he ran - and just kept running. It was not a "tactical" response but may have been a life saving one - as the suspect probably felt he could just escape a that point.

    Even if he wanted to go after and kill the officer it would have been some doing and would have exposed him, so he was probably just interested in getting away.

    Does not appear that the officer ever armed himself but hard to tell.
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

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    Kit,

    I agree with much, if not all of your breakdown. As soon as the non-compliance occurred, the hands going back into the car, I would have drawn my sidearm. I won't fault the officer for running. The adrenaline dump from being shot in the chest would have his mind all awry. Granted, he had his vest on, but being shot messes with your mind bigtime!
    With respect,
    Mitch Saret

  8. #7
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    Indeed it can!

    I also wrote this:

    To clarify - I am not saying at all that people can or should be left to whatever it is their default reaction is going to be in a situation like this.

    For sure, you can't really know. But what you can do is engage in training that puts you in places where you can get a pretty good idea of how you would react. Do that on a regular basis and you are patterning the kind of behavior that you want to demonstrate.

    And seek out as much knowledge as you can about "what it is like." The tremendous advantage we have now is the constant source of video examples of various outcomes. They certainly don't tell the full story, but they give us a way to put ourselves in the same kind of circumstances through visualization and mental training, which helps with stress inoculation.
    I am of the firm conviction that such things are really what concepts like fudoshin and a mindset of hissho are all about. (Hence my handle). In a very real sense they are training for life and death moments like this officer experienced, but escaped. From the little training I have had in koryu, and this mostly from Ellis, the whole point of pushing the envelope in kata was to develop this under the perceived threat of actual pain and injury. In other words, stress inoculation to improve psychological and physical performance.

    It probably morphed into something else long ago, of course.
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

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