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Thread: Mr. Kiyose Nakae's Jiujitsu Complete..

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    Hi,

    I had the opportunity of reading through the "Jiu Jitsu Complete" book authored by Mr. Kyose Nakae with contributions by Mr. Charles Yeager.

    In looking for the style of Jujutsu they used to demonstrate the techniques in the illustrations, there was no reference to the style. Additionally, looking through the web there was actually no reference at all regarding the style, school, or any of his students.

    Would anyone know what style of Jujutsu Mr. Kyose Nakae braught from Japan, and began teaching in the U.S.?


    Thanks in advance....

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    I believe it was Kito Ryu.
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    Going for the longest ever gap between Question and Answer?
    David Noble
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    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

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    Lol. I thought that myself! I wonder if it is a forum record?

    It only came about because I bought an old copy of the same book mentioned in the OP and was trying to find some background on the author and ryuha.

    I was also secretly hoping it would be worth a fortune and it looks as though I could get 16 for it when I paid 5 so not a bad profit percentage, but I like the book so much I think I will keep it!
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    Doesn't answer the question, but some notes from the files.

    In 1922, Kiyose Nakae was doing jujutsu on stage for the Keith vaudeville circuit. Standard tricks included disarming policemen, that sort of thing.

    In 1930, Kiyose Nakae, aged 46, was living in Chicago. He entered the USA in 1903. He listed his occupation as physical health instructor.

    In 1942, his US draft registration card was numbered U7891. Kiyose Nakae, address 5 West 52 St NY, NY. Age 58, date of birth 6/12/1883. Born Tottori-ken, Japan. Laurence S. Byrne Jr. was listed as contact. His business was at his home address.

    Also, in 1953, one finds his naturalization documentation: Card 7199211, residing at 241 6th Ave, NYC, on 12/21/1953; alien registration number 1326277.)

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    One of my martial arts instructors ( a long time ago) told me that he had studies Nakae Kito-ryu, if this helps any.

    Jose Garrido
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    Jiu Jitsu Complete is written by a true master of the art. It is clear and complete, the closest thing to learning Jiu Jitsu in private lessons in Professor Nakae's classroom. I have known and admired Professor Kiyose Nakae for many years. He is considered the foremost instructor of authentic Jiu Jitsu in the western world.

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    Lamar Clark,
    Are you copying and pasting lines of text from various internet sources, and using them here as comments? Because if you are, that is not acceptable participation on E-Budo. Why not post legit questions or your own comments and insights on martial arts, based on your experiences, rather than just taking uncredited snippets from people's writings?
    Cady Goldfield

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    Thanks Cady, I was just composing a DM to Mr Clark when I saw this. It would be nice to resurrect the forum, after such a long dormancy, but we need new insightful content rather than rehashing old threads.
    Neil Hawkins
    "The one thing that must be learnt but
    cannot be taught is understanding"

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    Neil, I've gotten a fresh perspective on Japanese jujutsu over the past eight years, and would like to see discussions on practical applications in contemporary settings, while using the traditional/classical principles that are still so relevant today. Hoping that we attract some jujutsu people from both classical and contemporary backgrounds to add their insights. A few BJJ people have joined E-Budo in the past month, and it would be great to share some of the common ground as well as the contrasts of these approaches to jujutsu.
    Cady Goldfield

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    Hi Cady,

    I agree totally, it would be good to see some dialogue sparked around the modern applications of the traditional styles.

    I have trained with various friends and have attempted to "stress test" the stuff I have learned and whilst everything is "adaptable" relatively few of the techniques are practical in the modern context exactly as taught. Although I have found that some of the fighting in armour techniques do translate well to modern military combatives for soldiers in full tactical vest and equipment.

    Additionally, some of the short weapon (tanto and tanbo) techniques are applicable, but again I think there may have been variations between what was originally taught a few hundred years ago and what is taught today, even if it is only in the emphasis on how the application should be done.

    I know that I have discussed this before with Kit and a few others, but the intent of the locking techniques we learn is initially immobilization through pain compliance. But if done correctly, the extension of the technique is to destroy the joint such that it is no longer an effective weapon for the aggressor, regardless if they feel the pain element.

    Likewise, it is my belief that many of the throws were originally designed to land the opponent on their head or neck to kill or incapacitate, but through the lens of Kano and "sport" jujutsu (and the need to preserve training partners!) were modified to allow the opponent to land on their side or back.

    Just about all the CQC I have seen has it's roots in jujutsu, just stripped bare to the ultimate practicality.

    Unfortunately, when it comes to locks and throws it is difficult to "prove" effectiveness without causing serious injury. So we must defer to those who have fought in real conflict to see what works for them. But that doesn't mean that it will work for anyone.
    Neil Hawkins
    "The one thing that must be learnt but
    cannot be taught is understanding"

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    Bait taken...

    Cady, Neil, and any others interested...as you mentioned I've been exploring this my entire career. Even moreso recently. Im a full time trainer with my agency now and my daily and weekly work explores the intersections you mention - what I call "classical and contemporary combatives," and jujutsu/jiujitsu. In the intervening years since the good ol days of E-Budo I've also gotten a black belt in BJJ. It has unquestionably proven effective and sometimes in surprising ways.

    But maybe a discussion is better placed in CQC?

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    Hi Kit,
    Contemporary applications of old/classical concepts and principles would work as a subject of discussion in either the CQC or koryu jujutsu forum, depending on the way a particular topic is being presented. I have been training in a system derived from multiple koryu and gendai, most of them focused on some form of combatives that very much connect with contemporary CQC. Would be great to compare notes.
    Cady Goldfield

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