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Thread: Shinkage-ryu heiho

  1. #1
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    Default Shinkage-ryu heiho

    I'm looking for information on a system that I heard of while I was in Okinawa--It's called Shinkage ryu. I thought that it was a Gendai system, but I've been told differently now. Can anybody point me in the right direction?
    SPC Jason C. Diederich, MOARNG
    FEMAS, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, Kali-Silat
    www.geocities.com/shaolinninjamarine

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    Question

    Are you referring to Shinkage-ryu jujutsu/yawara? Can you provide any kanji?

    Regards,

    CKohalyk

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    Hi,

    There're several photos, a brief description, and historical background on the Yagyu Shinkage-ryu at Koryu.com. The URL is http://koryu.com/guide/yagyushinkage.html

    Hope this helps!

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    Default

    There is also a Shinkage Ryu Jujutsu of appr. four or five generations old - it is a "combination" of, I think, four older grappling traditions, and it is still practiced.

    I also recall a book published by Weatherhill, Tuttle or Kodansha about a modern system called Shinkage Ryu, which I think claimed to be a combination of judo, aikido and karate.

    Best

    Ellis Amdur

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    Default Shin Kage Ryu R. Rielly

    The book is “Japan’s Complete Fighting System: Shin Kage Ryu” by Robin Rielly, Tuttle, 1998
    I have seen the book several times in book stores and it seems to be very much Karate based with some jujutsu, better than average karate esq. sword work, and knife. Perhaps similar to Wado Ryu? I think they say that karate techniques were added to Shin Kage Ryu Jujutsu early 20th century making something referred to Shin Kage Ryu karate jujutsu.
    Doug Walker
    Completely cut off both heads,
    Let a single sword stand against the cold sky!

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    Default

    The ISBN for the book by Robin Reilly is 0-8048-1536-4
    The copyright is 1989 rather than 1998.

    Paul

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    Arrow

    Just to add to Mr. Amdur's post, Shinkage-ryu JJ was created in the mid-Meiji with the main influence being Tenjin Shinyo-ryu. I am not sure if this is supposed to be the same as the previously mentioned karate-influenced Shinkage, but from my limited exposure to SRJJ it does have the same "feel" as TSyR, speaking as a TSyR guy.

    Hope this helps,

    CKohalyk

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    Default The Shinkage-ryű and its branches

    Hello everyone,


    Many of us in the koryu world know of Yagyu Shinkage-ryű and its branches, primarily the Edo and Owari lines. However, in my attempts to research and find out more, it seems that there are more branches of Shinkage-ryű are still practiced today.

    I picked up the book Iaido by William De Lange awhile back because I was curious to see the "Shinkage-ryű iaido" techniques illustrated in picture format. I figured it might be a good resource. Upon recieving it, I see similarities in the outer application of the techniques, however, many of the kata are different than what I have learned and seen demonstrated. Hmm.

    So, back to the internet I went. With the help of my friend Google, I turned up various dojo in Europe that indeed practice "Yagyu Shinkage-ryű iaido" or just "Shinkage-ryű iaido" (I assume they are talking about the same thing). From what I can tell, though, it doesn't seem they practice any kenjutsu from the Yagyu Shinkage-ryű heiho and they only talk about the iai portion. They also don't describe it as "Yagyu Seigo-ryű", the complimentary batto kata that are taught to students of the Owari line of YSR under Yagyu Nobuharu sensei.


    Thus far, I've figured this is what is still around:

    - Owari line Yagyu Shinkage-ryű

    - Edo line Yagyu Shinkage-ryű (Yamato Kai)

    - Hikida Shinkage-ryű (Hunter Armstrong)

    - Yagyu Shinkage-ryű iaido (?)


    So, if anyone could help me detail the lineages (if they are seperate) of this "Shinkage-ryű iaido" organization I have found in Europe. (I've seen the name of "Matsuoka Yoshitaka" (http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagod...Amsterdam4.htm quite frequently, so any information about him would also be appreciated.) Here are the websites of a few of the dojo I've come across:


    http://www.yushinkan.com/

    http://www.tenshokai.be/




    I will add more to this list in the future.


    Also, I am aware that Hunter Armstrong practices Hikida Shinkage-ryű (not sure if the name is correct) in addition to Yagyu Shinkage-ryű.


    Ahh, now I'm confusing myself with all these Shinkage's. If anyone could help me, feel free to post or if you'd prefer, please PM me. I just kind of want to do this for myself so I can know what's going on with the Shinkage practitioners across the world.


    Thank you for your patience,

    -Alex Dale
    - Alex Dale

  9. #9
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    Also, I am aware that Hunter Armstrong practices Hikida Shinkage-ryű (not sure if the name is correct) in addition to Yagyu Shinkage-ryű.
    FWIW, I think Hikita Shinkage Ryu is the Shinkage Ryu Mr. Armstrong practices - I dont think he practices Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.

    But I think I remember reading somewhere that either Kato Isao sensei or his teacher trained in both Hikita Shinkage Ryu and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, so perhaps there are Yagyu Shinkage Ryu influences on Hikita Shinkage Ryu.

    I also have heard in a variety of different places that there are a few different lineages which trace themselves back to Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, but are now independent of the 'mainline'. For example, Dave Lowry's lineage.
    Last edited by Finny; 25th May 2005 at 06:35.

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    Finny,

    I coulda sworn I read something somewhere that he practices both, but at the moment I can't seem to find my source.


    As for the breaking off of the mainline, it's all of those splits I want to know about. It'd be nice even to get enough qualified people on here to turn this into some kind of sticky for anyone interested.


    Regards,


    -Alex
    - Alex Dale

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    There was this post by Mr Amdur in a previous thread on E-Budo
    http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showpost...4&postcount=48
    Maybe there is something for you to go on, either in that post or the thread in general.
    http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28131
    Hope this helps.
    Louis
    Louis

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    Hello Alex,

    Interesting post, I hope we can get Meik involved.

    I do not know anything other than what is on the websites about the gentleman you mention, however it is my personal experience that there are more than a few branches of Yagyu still extant in Japan. One friend of mine there, Furukawa san, trained with the yamato Yagyu kai, as well as in another Yagyu group in Nara. As Furukawa san's family back at least to his great grandfather had all trained in Yagyu I have to believe it was a legitimate branch. I wish I had more information for you, but as I was not a member I did not pay much attention to it, and that group was very hush hush, no dojo sign, no gaijin, and there was no real internet at that time.

    Feel free to use the resources at www.yagyu-ryu.org, and yagyu-ryu.com for the edo research, and let me know if I can answer and specific questions.
    Paul Manogue
    Yagyu Shin Kage Ryu Hyo Ho
    www.yagyu-ryu.com
    Aikido
    www.renseikandojo.com

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    Doing some research, I found some good info in a thread I'd forgotten all about.


    http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthre...1&page=1&pp=15

    Mr. Marcarelli posted a clip of an email he received from Mr. Hunter Armstrong regarding his line of Shinkage-ryű. Very informative, but what stuck out to me was this:

    "...and kept distinct within the Kanbe line..."


    This Kanbe line is new to me. Could anyone tell me more about it?


    Also, working with Ellis Amdur's list of Shinkage-ryű derivatives, here's what I've got thus far:

    - Owari line Yagyu Shinkage-ryű

    - Yamato kai, Edo line Yagyu Shinkage-ryű

    - The line practiced by Dave Lowry, an offshoot of the mainline (5/6 generations back?)

    - An offshoot of the mainline (3/4 generations back?), via Otsubo and Muto Masao

    - Hikita Shinkage-ryű, Hunter Armstrong's line.

    - Marobashi kai Shinkage-ryű (3/4 generations back?) through Watanabe.

    - Kanbe line (?)

    - European Shinkage-ryű iaido schools (?) (Matsuoka sensei?)




    The rest I felt were not enough Shinkage-ryű to be considered derivatives of the art, rather, perhaps influenced by it.


    Was going to post something else... forgot what it was.


    But also, one last website I came across:

    http://www.shinkageryu.us


    Well, that's all I got for now.


    Thank you for your patience (thus far, heh),


    - Alex Dale
    - Alex Dale

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    Alex, you may already know this but in case you don't I thought it might help your research.

    Hikida (or Hikita) Shinkage Ryu isn't a branch off the Yagyu line, but a seperate line.

    Hikida Bungoro was a student of Kami Izumi Ise no Kami, founder of Shinkage Ryu, and his art has been known variously as Hikida Ryu, Hikida Kage Ryu, and Hikida Shinkage Ryu.

    Also, I could be mistaken (and I'm at work now, so can't check), but I think in the DeLange book they mention that the Iaido they are showing is Yagyu Seigo Ryu, not Yagyu Shinkage Ryu per se.

    Regarding the Iai/Batto of both, Hunter Armstrong has written, "...in both the Hikida and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, there is either no batto, or it is done as a minor part of the overall kenjutsu training. (In the Yagyu Ryu of Yagyu Nobuharu Sensei, there is no Yagyu Ryu sword-drawing, however, his grandfather developed Yagyu Seigo Ryu batto/iai explicitly for modern purposes. In Hikida Shinkage Ryu, the batto is essentially a preparation for two-person, sword-drawing kenjutsu with shinken, or actual swords, which is closer still to combative reality.)"

    (Mr. Armstrong's bio on the SMAA Web site says he practices "Shinkage Ryu Heiho" and Owari Kan Ryu, but doesn't specify which Shinkage Ryu line or lines.)

    Lastly, you might also Google on "Shinkage Ryu Bishu" and see what you come up with.

    HTH.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Dale
    - European Shinkage-ryű iaido schools (?) (Matsuoka sensei?)
    I believe the branch Matsuoka teaches is the same as De Lange's book. They are both under Akita Moriji.


    I asked about Shinkage-ryu iaido book on the iaido list and this is what Mr. Skoss wrote.
    What DeLange is doing is an off-shoot of Yagyu Seigo-ryu battojutsu and a fair bit different from what we do in the Yagyukai, under Yagyu Sensei. His teacher, Akita Moriji, is a student of Kashima Kiyotaka, one of the previous
    headmaster's (Y. Toshinaga [Gencho]) more senior students. After Gencho S. died and his son, Y. Nobuharu Toshimichi, succeeded him, Kashima S. split off and began teaching on his own.


    There are significant differences. For one thing, Yagyu Shinkage-ryu, per se,
    has never had a iai component and has only ever consisted of kenjutsu, or toho, and hyoho (heiho), which we take to mean military strategy. Iai, or battojutsu as we prefer to call it, is an ancillary form of training and done as a separate entity, Yagyu S. being the 21st headmaster of Y. Shinkage-ryu and the 13th head of Yagyu Seigo-ryu
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

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