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Thread: Yoshida Kotaro & Yoshida Kenji (Yanagi-ryu)

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    The only texts there that I have read are Harrison's book (1910) and the Global Security article. Harrison's book is useful mostly for the maps and photos, which are really nice graphics. The Global Security article is very good, but for obvious reasons, it doesn't devote itself much to individual Korean railwaymen don't get mentioned, if you know what I mean. Nonetheless, the bibliographies always lead outward.

    Don't forget to check National Archives and Library of Congress. For instance, there is this newsreel at NARA.

    ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCES IN SIBERIA, 1918-1919, 1936
    Creator: Department of Defense. Department of the Army. Office of the Chief Signal Officer. (09/18/1947 - 02/28/1964) ( Most Recent)

    Type of Archival Materials:
    Moving Images
    Level of Description:
    Item from Record Group 111: Records of the Office of the Chief Signal Officer, 1860 - 1982

    Location: Motion Picture, Sound, and Video Records LICON, Special Media Archives Services Division (NWCS-M), National Archives at College Park, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001 PHONE: 301-837-3540, FAX: 301-837-3620, EMAIL: mopix@nara.gov
    Other Titles: Historical Film, No. 1161

    Production Date: 1936

    Part of: Series: Historical Films, ca. 1914 - ca. 1936

    Scope & Content Note:
    Reel 1 has panoramic views of Vladivostok. Ger. POW's unload the transport Sherman, refugees congregate in the railway station, U.S. troops stand inspection, 31st Inf. officers pose, and Japanese troops guard the station. Shows trucks and autos. Reel 2, U.S. troops march and stand inspection, machine guns are readied and fired, an airplane flies overhead, Col. Robinson and aides pose in Spasskoe, medics pose at a Khabarovsk hospital, and Japanese troops load war materiel on flatcars in Khabarovsk. Shows railway supplies in Ogalnia, Col. Styer, the Amur and Ussuri Rivers, and a Japanese depot. Reel 3 shows dock facilities at Red River Station on the Ussuri; U.S. and allied troops; civilians; sentries guarding a bridge over the Amur; a funeral procession; Styer posing with Japanese Gen. Oi; Ger. POW's exercising at Red River Station; Cols. Murrow and Robinson on a train; a U.S. guard mount; and Russ. troops. Reel 4, Japanese troops guard a U.S. train, crew members pose, Japanese Gen. Kayizuka visits Styer, Ataman Kalmikoff's Cossacks drill, U.S. troops put on a rodeo, Cossacks pose, and Morrow poses in his quarters. Reel 5, officers pose aboard the Brit. cruiser Suffolk, sailors row to the cruiser Brooklyn, Brit. Gen. Knox poses with aides, Brit. troops march thru Vladivostok, and Graves poses with aides Eichelberger and Offutt. Shows hospital cars on a siding. Reel 6 shows ships in Vladivostok, Japanese crewmen, docks, and Russ. army maneuvers. The transport Warren cuts a path thru ice and workmen board a tug. Reel 7, Czech's guard and feed Bolshevik's on a train in Pogranichnaya, Manchuria. Shows an A.R.C. train near Nekolsk, Siberia, trucks on railway cars, wrecked cars in Harbi Manchuria, the Buchadeu hospital, and a train near Lake Baikal. Refugees walk along the Siberian railroad, Japanese and Chinese troops stand inspection, Russ. and Chinese troops guard the Harbin station, Japanese troops practice bayonet drills, and Czech's unload a train. Reel 8 shows office.....

  2. #77
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Joe
    That was great-research supreme. I echo Chris and Bruce and most everyone else here. When it comes to research you're the man
    Cheers
    Bud
    Dan
    Last edited by Dan Harden; 18th March 2004 at 00:48.

  3. #78
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Tony
    I finally got to crack the book out again. I found the same information. What I found facinating again was that Yoshida taught some wrist moves as well as the tessan to Kondo as stated.
    Play that against Kondo telling Don that he recognized theteesan uses and the wrist use. It makes ya wonder where Yanagi and Daito ryu converged or split and in which man or in both..hhmmm

    cheers
    Dan

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    [Post deleted by user]
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 12th June 2014 at 04:59.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    [Post deleted by user]
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 12th June 2014 at 04:59.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    It may be notable that up until Takuma Hisa received menkyo kaiden the kyoju dairi certification was the highest available in Daito ryu, menkyo kaiden did not exist. I believe that Yoshida was not the only kyoju dairi licensed teacher that issued ranks and licenses in Daito ryu independent of Takeda or the main line school.
    Richard Elias
    Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin ryu
    Yanagi Ryu

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    Just a friendly update in case anyone else happens across this old thread (which i have learned a lot from), Don Angier Soke of Shidareyanagiryu has passed away and passed the art to his grandson Jeremy who is the current Soke

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    Yes, Angier passed away in 2014. after passing his art to Jeremy Breazeale, adoptive grandson.
    Cady Goldfield

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    To revisit an old topic, Yoshida Kotaro did not train in a hidden family art - in fact, he trained in Shingetsu Musō Yanagi-ryū (in addition, of course, to Daito-ryu), a school still extant in Japan. His family in Japan still have documents that detail this.

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    I need to do a little fine tuning on the last post - Toby Threadgill has refreshed my memory of a previous conversation. In 1994, he and Don Angier contacted Yoshida Kotaro's surviving son. He knew nothing about martial arts himself, but read from a diary of Yoshida's which mentioned him training in "Muso Yanagi ryu jujutsu, Yoshin ryu hibukijutsu and Daito ryu aikijujutsu. " It is a reasonable guess that this refers to Shingetsu Muso Yanagi-ryu, as there are some similarities in the way they use weaponry, the mutual use of a long-tsuka sword and other characteristics. However, there are so many Yoshin-ryu offshoots (Yanagi-ryu being yet another one of them) that it's also possible that this was another faction. By the way, the Yoshin ryu hibukijutsu refers to 'hidden weaponry' and the use of the character 陰 for 'yo' is quite fitting in this regard, as that is the Japanese reading of 'yin.'

    At any rate, barring that diary being published or read in detail (and it was written in archaic Japanese), it's best to take Yoshida at his word and simply refer to that other study as Muso Yanagi-ryu jujutsu.

    Best
    Ellis Amdur

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur View Post
    To revisit an old topic, Yoshida Kotaro did not train in a hidden family art - in fact, he trained in Shingetsu Musō Yanagi-ryū (in addition, of course, to Daito-ryu), a school still extant in Japan. His family in Japan still have documents that detail this.
    Is there any information on him teaching in the Dai Nippon Butokukai?

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    Nope. I am not aware of any Daito-ryu instructor ever associated with the DNB. Remember, though, it was an umbrella organization, with both an 'institute' in Kyoto, and most martial arts being enrolled/associated through their involvement with the education system, the military or other government connected organizations. DR was not associated in that way, until aikibudo started its association through the involvement of Hirai Minoru. By the way, I've recently read that, contrary to what Hirai indicated, "aikido" was NOT an umbrella term for all koryu jujutsu, it was a suggested revision of "aikibudo," probably to make it 'modern,' fitting in with judo, kendo, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellis Amdur View Post
    Nope. I am not aware of any Daito-ryu instructor ever associated with the DNB. Remember, though, it was an umbrella organization, with both an 'institute' in Kyoto, and most martial arts being enrolled/associated through their involvement with the education system, the military or other government connected organizations. DR was not associated in that way, until aikibudo started its association through the involvement of Hirai Minoru. By the way, I've recently read that, contrary to what Hirai indicated, "aikido" was NOT an umbrella term for all koryu jujutsu, it was a suggested revision of "aikibudo," probably to make it 'modern,' fitting in with judo, kendo, etc.
    A yes, I remember that from the thread on aikiweb, http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25243 , you should check out the interview with Sensei Tada in the last post, if you already haven't. He says that it was in fact still called aiki-budo when he started to train. He also confirms what you wrote about it being O'Sensei's Aikido (aiki-budo) and not an umbrella term.
    Last edited by MrIggy; 4th September 2017 at 23:47.

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    The Dai Nihon Butokukai originally had two divisions: Gekiken and Kyujutsu.
    I think Naginatajutsu was next.

    Then Kano Jigoro and others convinced it to add a jujutsu division. Shortly after, he chaired a committee of jujutsu masters and their reps to establish the common jujutsu kata. That's well known. Their work created and confirmed the Randori no Kata, known today as two separate kata: Nage no kata and Katame no kata.

    The jujutsu division was eventually renamed the judo division, about the same time the gekiken division became kendo.

    When aikibudo showed up, to the extent that it participated in the DNBK, it was tucked under the judo division. Nagaoka sensei headed that for decades.

    I dug up the founding documents of the new Dai Nihon Butokukai after the old one was shut down. Ueshiba Morihei sensei is named as an advisor in his own right. This is the Butokukai that was headquartered in the powerful Home Ministry in Tokyo rather than Kyoto.

    The establishment of the new Dai Nihon Butukokai and Hirai Minoru sensei's interaction with it led to the name aikido. No surprise, except to the apparent surprise of Ueshiba sensei, who wasn't directly involved.

    I've been looking for years for Hirai sensei's book that supposedly offers the standard 'aikido' kata to the Dai Nihon Butokukai - even today, his grandson (son?) claims he teaches it. I've never seen a copy of the book, but have been told by a student of Hirai sensei what is taught today in Korindo aikido is not the same.
    Lance Gatling ガトリング
    Tokyo 東京

    Long as we're making up titles, call me 'The Duke of Earl'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Gatling View Post
    The Dai Nihon Butokukai originally had two divisions: Gekiken and Kyujutsu.
    I think Naginatajutsu was next.

    Then Kano Jigoro and others convinced it to add a jujutsu division. Shortly after, he chaired a committee of jujutsu masters and their reps to establish the common jujutsu kata. That's well known. Their work created and confirmed the Randori no Kata, known today as two separate kata: Nage no kata and Katame no kata.

    The jujutsu division was eventually renamed the judo division, about the same time the gekiken division became kendo.
    Do you know perhaps in which years did these events occur?

    When aikibudo showed up, to the extent that it participated in the DNBK, it was tucked under the judo division. Nagaoka sensei headed that for decades.
    Was this in the old or in the new DNB?

    I dug up the founding documents of the new Dai Nihon Butokukai after the old one was shut down. Ueshiba Morihei sensei is named as an advisor in his own right. This is the Butokukai that was headquartered in the powerful Home Ministry in Tokyo rather than Kyoto.

    The establishment of the new Dai Nihon Butukokai and Hirai Minoru sensei's interaction with it led to the name aikido. No surprise, except to the apparent surprise of Ueshiba sensei, who wasn't directly involved.
    It's said that Aikido became a part of the Butokukai in 1942. that would be the old DNB, in which also it is said that Hirai was involved.

    I've been looking for years for Hirai sensei's book that supposedly offers the standard 'aikido' kata to the Dai Nihon Butokukai - even today, his grandson (son?) claims he teaches it. I've never seen a copy of the book, but have been told by a student of Hirai sensei what is taught today in Korindo aikido is not the same.
    Great, more misinformation from them.

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