Mass gain

[Danny]

Greetings, I was wondering what all your opinions where on the fastest way to gain muscle, bulk, and general mass gain. Please include exersise, diet and kata's, merridian lines ect in your reply. Bear in mind I am vegetarian, although still eat eggs.
At the moment I am 6.3 tall, and only 75 kilograms in weight (sorry guys not sure what that is in pounds lol) Thanks for you help,
Danny

[Budo00]

Just out of curiosity, why would you want to do that? Most martial artists I know are (or try to be) lean and thin.

I believe sumo do not gain weight by eating fatty foods as much as they just eat a lot of food through out the day. Judging by what most Japanese eat, that seems to be really healthy, except for the overeating part… but I think that is why Sumo have such good heart and lung capacity.

If you go to the gym, try lifting heavier weights with fewer repetitions. An excellent book I can recommend is: Getting stronger by Bill Pearl and Gary T. Moran, Ph.D.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

Hum, for martial arts training your lenght/weight ratio is pretty good. You will gain some mass during training (remember to eat properly), but that is just natural.

There are some issues with muscles. You can build some mass and strength, but problem is to control that strength properly, since nerves won't "follow" your training => your gained strenth won't help you straight away. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather do that via my martial arts training (building muscle by training the use of muscle) than via weight- and mass training (building muscles and THEN teach them how to work).

You won't need massive muscles to punch or kick effectively - or to any other thing you do in MA's.

My own lenght/weight: 188cm, 80kg.

[Danny]

At the moment I got a lot of lean muscle, but I think there is room for a lot more (I am the 6 foot stick) Yes at the moment I am faster then most I know, with a longer reach then anyone I know, but in grappling with such a high center of gravity and little weight to back it up it I am slightly disadvantage I would say, although I fight terrific at the other 3 ranges... besides, all the girlies dont like lean muscle stretched over long bones,HA! I do not really need to gain any strength, I feel I pack more then enough power, just mass, will still be nice and lean, just as fast ect,but want to gain just a little bulk just to look good, help with grappling, and stop me from breaking if I ever get hit,lol.
Let me all know your thoughts on this..
Danny

[DavidMasaki]

You should join a gym with friends and find a program you like. Most gyms have trainers that can help you get started with a program and diet if you really have no idea where to begin. If you're going to take supplements, I'd recommend creatine. The first time I took it, I put on 7 pounds of muscle in about a month.

Magazines also have lots of good fitness advice. I wouldn't recommend reading those bodybuilder magazines. They'll try to sell you the latest fad in unproven supplements (since they're all owned by supplment companies that sell the stuff) and have crazy unrealistic routines. One magazine I like is Men's Health because it tends to have practical advice and have a good balance of humor. It's good to mix up your routine and every month they have different exercises and routines you can try.

I also agree with Budo00 about the book, "Getting Stronger." It's has a good introduction and many different routines. It's the book I started with when I first started working out 10 years ago. I wish I knew where my copy was. Amazon.com lists an updated version of the book coming out next month.

[Steve C]

Definately, definately go with friends. It helps you establish a routine, makes the experience more enjoyable, and if you're spotting for others, you can't let them down by not turning up.

When I started going to the gym, I got a lift down there with a friend of mine. Every morning, I had to be at the appointed pick-up spot, and he had to be there to get me - and so every morning we've managed to get there, pretty much without fail, barring sickness, injury, holidays, etc.



If you want my proven weight-gain technique, eat a hell of a lot of cheese sandwiches.

Unfortunately, none of it's muscle

Steve

[Danny]

*chuckles*
Thank you all for your replys....cheese sandwhichs eh?
I am looking for muscle gain, rather then body fat.
I guess that means I have cheese sandwhichs with muscle gain powder on them?
Just kidding guys, thanks for the help.
Remain well,
Danny

[Steve C]

Ah. Maybe change it to my 'Eat a hell of a lot of burgers' diet. It contains more protein to help you gain muscle. ;-)

[yamatodamashii]

Okay:

The MOST IMPORTANT THING TO DO (after starting a weight-lifting program, of course) is increase your protein intake. If you want to gain muscle mass, you need to be taking in about 1 gram of protein per pound of muscle mass. In order to process this efficiently, break your food up into five meals instead of three.

The Gold's Gym books (esp "Guide to Mass Building" and "Nutrition Bible") are invaluable; Joe Weider's "Ultimate Bodybuilding" is also a great start for mass building.

HOWEVER: These books are only building muscle mass. While this will give a GREAT advantage in a fight (both in terms of weight advantange and strength advantage), there IS A BETTER WAY...

www.biggerfasterstronger.com

Almost tailor-made for martial artists--and very difficult to do without involving friends. My caveat: ignore his nutrition advice. Go to the Gold's Gym homepage--they have software that plans meals for physically active people based on weight, fat %, metabolism, and lots of other factors (they figure most of it for you).

I have more good links on my webpage.

[Danny]

Thanks again for the replys guys...
I think I will give the hamburger diet a miss though...
Been doing a nice weight training program, yt still got to increase the protein in my fiet...cant see any extra muscle, but losing a lot of flexibility. *chuckles*
Ahh gods I am sore...why did I let them talk me into a 3 on 1 full contact event?

[yamatodamashii]

The best protein supplements on the market now are pure whey or whey/casein--so if milk is allowed in your diet, you're set. If not, eggs *are* the standard by which other proteins are measured. Boiled is best.

Supplements called "Weight Gain" powders are generally "Fat Gain".

Weight training does not have to mean losing flexibility. Stretch immediately after lifting, and make sure you exercise through a full range of motion.

And for God's sake, don't use those wussy little "machines". They have no carryover value to any concievable human movement, let alone martial arts (and they're not very good at building mass anyway...).

[Danny]

I do have a whey and egg protein supplement, and do drink milk, so just sit back and wait eh?
Machines? are those the things you plug unto you and it makes your muscles pulse etc?
I wonder if you used them for too long, if one day you got a shock of static electricty, you would just spasm uncontrollably?
Although...perhaps if I experiment by putting them on differant places on my girlfriend....

[maney]

Gaining Mass:
If all you are looking for is gaining mass instead of also trying to become stronger, I'd say you are wasting your time with the weights. You'd probably be better off doing something like swimming. It will give you a good full body workout and run you through a much larger range of motion and muscles than lifting.

Diet:
I tried the whole vegetarian thing (very rarely I had some fish, but that was it) on a bet in high school while I was on swim team and swimming about 3 miles a day 6 days a week. I found that I couldn't get enough calories or protein unless I was *always* eating. The trick here is getting as much dairy and eggs as possible.

Supplements:
I'd suggest you looking into Chromium Picolinate. I gained about 25 pounds of muscle and 6 inches across my chest and shoulders in about 2 months on that stuff. One caveat though, don't take it if you aren't going to be very active. If you don't exercise enough, it will pack on a lot of body fat.

Also, a good multi-vitamin combined with extra vitamin C (the only people that need to worry about over-dosing on vitamin C are pregnant women, you simply pee the excess away), glucosamine-chondritin, golden seal and echinasea are always a good bet. They won't help your mass problem, but they will certainly help with the rest.

Flexibility:
Always stretch both before and after lifting (or for that matter, any physical exercise). A good head-to-toe stretching program every day will do wonders for your flexibility.

fpsm

[yamatodamashii]

Originally posted by Danny
I do have a whey and egg protein supplement, and do drink milk, so just sit back and wait eh?

No--now you work out hard. And remember: 1 gram/pound--but no more than 40 grams per meal (your body can't process more than that).

Originally posted by Danny

Machines? are those the things you plug unto you and it makes your muscles pulse etc?
I wonder if you used them for too long, if one day you got a shock of static electricty, you would just spasm uncontrollably?
Although...perhaps if I experiment by putting them on differant places on my girlfriend....

No, those are TEMS (Trans-cutaneous Electro-Muscular Stimulation) devices. Also relatively worthless, except as physical therapy. By "machines" I mean Nautilus and related equipment; things in which the resistance moves along a track. If you want to develop useful strength and a decent amount of muscle mass, you need to use free weights (barbell/dumbbell).

Also--no offense, Mr. Maney, but Chromium Picolinate is *not* an anabolic agent. It assists fat loss--and usually only in people with bad diets. If you gained significant muscle mass while using it, it was due to your own hard work and correct nutrition.
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I just noticed at the top--you said you didn't know how many pounds "75 kg" equalled. Since you'll need that to work the formula, it's 165 lbs (1 kg = 2.2 lb).
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By the way, the Gold's Gym software also does vegetarian diets.

[Matthew Lawrence]

Hello everyone,

I know you have already received a good deal of advice Danny, but I thought I would offer my own as well. From what I gather from your posts, you want to gain mass. I'm not sure if your goal is mass & strength (while these typically go hand in hand, strength can be increased without large gains in mass). From my perspective, there are several factors that you should consider if you want to gain muscular bodyweight and strength:

1) weight training (exercise selection & program design);
2) nutrition;
3) rest & recovery; and
4) genetics.

You might want to take a look at the following websites:

www.cyberpump.com
www.hardgainer.com
www.naturalstrength.com

Although the approaches to strength-training presented in these sites differ, I believe the essence is the same: infrequent, intense training of limited duration using compound exercises with progressive resistance produces good to great results in most trainees.

1) Weight training--exercise selection and program design.

Compound, multi-joint exercises shoud be the foundation of your program. The squat is considered by many to be the ultimate exercise for gaining muscular bodyweight--not just in your legs, but in your entire body, particularly 20 rep squats. Other very productive exercises include deadlifts, dips, bench presses, shoulder presses, chins, rows, etc. Some people favor the olympic lifts (snatch, clean & jerk) and olympic assistance exercises (power clean, squat clean, high pulls, etc.) Some people are better suited to certain lifts than to others.

As for your program, you have to experiment with what number of sets and repetitions works best for you. As a general rule though, you should focus on "less is more". Most people with average recovery ability, tend to spend more time in the gym than is necessary, doing too many exercises with too little intensity. For each workout, I use one lower body/total body exercise (squat or deadlift), one press (dips or shoulder press) and one pull (chins or rows). My goal for each exercise is to meet my scheduled number of sets and reps. If I do so, I increase the resistance for my next workout. For big exercises, I can usually add 5 pounds (squat/deadlift) until I am well into a training cycle. For other exercises, I start with 2 pounds, and eventually drop to 1 pound. While that may not seem like much, if I am able to consistently add one pound a week on a lift, at the end of a year, I will have added 52 pounds to that exercise. To me, that is great progress. Obviously, one can't make such increases indefinitely, so at some point in a cycle when gains start to dry up, I cut back the weights to about 75% to 80% of my max working weight and start the process over.

My current routine is as follows:

Tues:

Free Squat (2 warmup sets) 1 workset 20 reps
Dips with added weight (2 warmup sets) 2 worksets 5 reps
Chins with added weight (1 warmup) 2 worksets 5 reps
Hammer Machine shrugs 2 worksets 7 reps

Sat:

Hammer Machine Deadlift (2 warmup sets) 2 worksets 5 reps
Standing press (2 warmup sets) 2 worksets 3 reps
Hammer iso-lateral row 2 worksets 7 reps
Hammer seated calf 2 worksets 20 reps
Power rack crunches 2 worksets 10 reps

My workouts take about 40 minutes. I am usually drenched in sweat when I finish. For me it makes sense to spend less time in the gym--I have a family, I have responsibilities, and I have other interests, like budo. I can usually milk a cycle for 3 or four months before I need to change things around. My rule of thumb is if I am continuing to make gains--DON'T CHANGE THE ROUTINE!

2) Nutrition

You have to eat more calories than you burn in order to gain weight. Simple right? Well, with the amount of activity you do, it may be harder than you think. Additionally, your calorie intake has to go up gradually--otherwise, most of your weight gain will be flab. You should try to establish what your maintenance calories are, that is, the number of calories to keep you at your current weight. One way to do this is to keep a food journal with all the food you consume in a week. At the end of the week, if you have neither gained nor lost weight, you can use this as a rough guide to your maintenance calories. When you establish your maintenance calories, gradually add approximately 200 more calories a day and at the end of the week check your weight. You want to shoot for about 1.5 to 2 pounds (sorry, I don't know kilos) of weight gain a week, if you gain more, most will be fat. If you aren't gaining weight, make another gradual increase in calories. It's like adding weight to your exercises--steady, small progression.

As for what to eat, your being a vegetarian means you will have to be creative. Someone already posted that you need to consume more protein--I heartily agree. My goal is to eat unprocessed food--no sugar, no refined carbohydrates--no white flour bread, noodles, white rice. As a result, I tend to eat alot of chicken breasts, tuna, steak, fruit and vegetables, brown rice, 4 liters of water a day, minimal soda, and protein powder shakes with nonfat milk. Once a week I let myself eat whatever I want--can you say pizza? I do better if I eat 5 to 7 small meals a day. I shoot for a ration of about 40% protein, 35% carbs, and 25% fat. This works for me--you may have better results with a different diet.

Other than protein powder, and a multi-vitamin, I don't use supplements.

3) Rest & recovery

You do your muscle building when you rest--you tear yourself down training and your body adapts and gets stronger/bigger. Thus, if you want to grow, you have to get a good night's sleep, and you have to make sure that your other activities don't cut too much into your recovery. I have two organized training sessions a week in the arts I study (Shindo Muso Ryu and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu). I usually do one cardio type session a week. For me, this is enough.

4) Genetics

I think most people never reach their genetic potential--it takes a lot of smart, hard work over a long period of time to do this. Having said that, not everyone can look like the elite strength athletes--these people usually have tremendous genetic gifts and work extremely hard. I believe everyone can get much bigger and stronger than they think. I was a soccer player growing up and until my junior year in college, I weighed about 162 pounds soaking wet at a height of 6' 2". Tired of getting pushed around on the field, I started reading bodybuilding magazines, began to use the high volume training routines in them, and built myself up to about 180 pounds. I could never get past that point. For the next 10 years, I haphazardly worked out and got up to 185 pounds. About 2 years ago, I stumbled across the websites I listed above. I started working out again on a reduced number of exercises with the other guidelines I have given you. At age 34, I now weigh about 210 pounds at a slightly lower bodyfat level. My strength levels improved dramatically.

I hope this was helpful and not too pedantic. As a parting shot, Sean Toohey gave me my weight training mantra--Squat like an animal, eat like a horse, sleep like a baby, grow like a weed. Best of luck to you Danny.