Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Thread: Jujutsu, the dream

  1. #1
    Matthew Banks Guest

    Default Jujutsu, the dream

    Hi there,

    When I enquire about jujutsu, all you find is some guy who has made his thing up, to make money.

    I read about in the very old times how there were jujutsu competions between rival dojo's and if you won your name would go up on the dojo entrance etc.

    My question is. ''Are there legtimate style of koryu jujutsu out there, which mainly practice unarmed tecniques and also practice randori. I know there is judo, but I wondered if there really is a jujutsu that so many people visualised it was in the old days.


    If so what was the style?

    Matt Banks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Cardiff - Wales - UK
    Posts
    87
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Matt

    Welcome to E-budo.

    There are a number of Koryu Ju Jitsu styles being taught openly in the west. My understanding is that they don't generally practice Randori but I could be wrong on that.

    There isalso a much larger number of Jiu Jitsu styles that, whilst not Koryu per se, are legitimate arts with verifiable lineage and offer considerably more than "some guy who has made his thing up, to make money".

    If you post your location, then it is possible that someone here could recomend a dojo.

  3. #3
    Matthew Banks Guest

    Default hi

    Originally posted by Rob
    Matt

    Welcome to E-budo.

    There are a number of Koryu Ju Jitsu styles being taught openly in the west. My understanding is that they don't generally practice Randori but I could be wrong on that.

    There isalso a much larger number of Jiu Jitsu styles that, whilst not Koryu per se, are legitimate arts with verifiable lineage and offer considerably more than "some guy who has made his thing up, to make money".

    If you post your location, then it is possible that someone here could recomend a dojo.
    I live in devon england

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Cardiff - Wales - UK
    Posts
    87
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Matt

    The style I practice is certainly not a Koryu and as far as I'm aware we rarely go round challenging other clubs, dojo storming is soooo last century.

    However there is a club in Plymouth details of which can be found under the club information, try

    http://www.jitsufoundation.org/

    If you have any questions or need any further information about that style please don't hesitate to contact me either on robwallis@hotmail.com or by PM on this forum.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    54
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Ju Jutsu Styles

    Hi Matt,

    There are many "bona fide" ju jutsu styles around. I thought I'd start the ball rolling by mentioning the one I'm most familiar with . This is Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu, which is taught by Shihan Jan de Jong, of Perth, Western Australia.

    The school doesn't have a judo or karate background. Hence it is one of the few ju jutsu schools that doesn't have a sportive component.

    The style uses a variety of training methods, ranging from kata through randori, to shiai. The Tsutsumi Hozan style makes much use of an exercise called "Shinken Shobu no Kata". This translates as "to fight in the spirit of the sword", or more litterally, "kata of combat".

    On a lighter note, I notice that you refered to the art as "jutsu" rather than "jitsu". In my opinion, "jutsu" is more correct, but I don't often see it spelt that way outside of Australia. In America and the UK, it's almost always referred to as "jitsu". I'm intrigued - could let me know a little about your background?
    Steve Moller

    "Thrice armed are they who know Ju Jutsu"

  6. #6
    Matthew Banks Guest

    Default Re: Ju Jutsu Styles

    Originally posted by Stevo
    Hi Matt,

    There are many "bona fide" ju jutsu styles around. I thought I'd start the ball rolling by mentioning the one I'm most familiar with . This is Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu, which is taught by Shihan Jan de Jong, of Perth, Western Australia.

    The school doesn't have a judo or karate background. Hence it is one of the few ju jutsu schools that doesn't have a sportive component.

    The style uses a variety of training methods, ranging from kata through randori, to shiai. The Tsutsumi Hozan style makes much use of an exercise called "Shinken Shobu no Kata". This translates as "to fight in the spirit of the sword", or more litterally, "kata of combat".

    On a lighter note, I notice that you refered to the art as "jutsu" rather than "jitsu". In my opinion, "jutsu" is more correct, but I don't often see it spelt that way outside of Australia. In America and the UK, it's almost always referred to as "jitsu". I'm intrigued - could let me know a little about your background?

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for the reply. I refer to the art as jujutsu as it is the correct and only way of spelling jujutsu. I am an aikidoka, and I once trained with a kendoka from a japan who was the proffesor of languages at a university in japan. He told me catagorically
    that any other variations from the word jujutsu were wrong. This man would know as he has researched this thing for over 10 years. He explained in depth, how the other forms were wrong.

    One reason is as more and more jujutsu dojo's pop up, they try and cash in on the bjj craze. They believe spelling the art jiu-jitsu will pull in the punters. I m not attacking people who use this spelling,becasue they are likely to be people who train in just a true spirit as any other jujutsuka. There is a word portugese which goes something like 'miu minetsu' which means un armed combat or something. And when the word jujutsu came around, it got adapted to jiu jitsu by the people of brazil. Speak to yamantaka on this forum he knows the reasoning in depth, and I believe he is Brazilian.
    What are your feelings?

    Matt Banks

  7. #7
    Aaron Fields Guest

    Smile

    The ju-jutsu I practice is Yabe ryu-ha, we have randori, but we are not a koryu. Yabe is Meji-period ju-jutsu, and as far as we can tell is an offshoot of the Tenjin Shinyou Ryu. So we would also have some early judo connection. Good luck looking....

  8. #8
    MarkF Guest

    Default

    Kitoryu is from where randori comes. The term *Judo* comes from an old school of kitoryu, in the 17th century, called jikishin-ryu. Even the concepts of mutual welfare came from the kito school, as does a similar life style of the judoka.

    Kano was an amazing man, but he wasn't the first to use the term.

    Kitoryu, certainly an "official" koryu, does indeed exist. Much of the judo nage no waza comes from this and jikishin, and the omote and ura of judo is simply called Kitoryu no kata (ko shiki no kata). Tenjin shin'yoryu certainly is one of the koryu from which comes much of judo, atemi no waza being just one.

    The kime no kata of judo is also known as "shingen shobu no kata," and are probably very similar, as weapon use is still part of the judo syllabus.

    Matthew, I answered your question in the judo forum in part, anyway.


    Mark

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Long Beach,CA
    Posts
    32
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    You'd be better of studying Ba Gua Zhang. In Ba Gua there are set forms, two man drills, solo drills, and rou shou (a type of push hands) and san shou (kind of like randori) They have joint locks, throws, and striking but lack ground fighting techniques. There are many techniques that are very similar to japanese jiu jitsu. If I put a gi or a hakama on you wouldn't be able to tell the difference...well...IMHO...Ba Gua works better. :-) It is an amazing art. There are two main lineages Yin Fu and Cheng Ting Hua. From what I understand Yin Fu stylist tend to strike more and Cheng Ting Hua grappled more. Then there are variations that were influenced by Xing Yi like the Kao style. To me Ba Gua just offers more of a variety. My understanding of Yanagi Ryu Aiki Jiu Jitsu has certainly been helped by my study of Ba Gua Zhang. Try it but choose your teacher wisely. Like Jiu Jitsu, there are a lot of pretenders out there.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    54
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Hi Matt,

    Thanks for the feedback. You've satisfied my curiosity about the origin of your spelling. I too was taught that "jutsu" is more correct than "jitsu".

    Personally, I think that language is a dynamic thing, and that the "correct" way of spelling is always the one that's used by the greater number of people. So I prefer "jutsu", but don't have a problem with "jitsu" either.

    Obviously the quality of a school's ju jutsu is more important than the way they spell the art. However, I also feel that the way a school spells the art conveys information about their background.
    Steve Moller

    "Thrice armed are they who know Ju Jutsu"

  11. #11
    MarkF Guest

    Default

    I think English is just fine for martial arts done in English speaking countries. However, if you are going to use the Japanese or other language[s] of the art form, one should use them, correctly. One, as an example is what we call the workout clothing we wear in the dojo. "Gi," a common expression for judogi or keikogi, is incorrect even if used in Japan, or espegially in Japan. The term for the shortened word is *dogi* or keikogi, judogi, etc. If you are going to use the language, get a beginner's guide to martial art form and use the terminolgy as close to the original as possible. Otherwise, use English. I've had many a guest from Japan in my teachers' dojo and many wish to know the terms in English since he is learning English.

    In fact, there are many on the internet. Michionline is one, but is not very caught up in the modern gendai terms, but still is a pretty good glossary for overall accuracy.

    Do a search. You'll find a good one to bookmark.

    Mark

  12. #12
    Jake Tarbox Guest

    Default

    Matt,

    To give you my perspective:

    I live in Japan, working as a translator. I also practice Hontai Yoshin Ryu jujutsu. It is a classic old style, and part of the Nippon Kobudo Kyokai. NOTE: that doesn't make it better or worse than any other style, I only add that to show is "true" kobudo.

    Almost all the teachers in this organization did judo extensively when they were young. We almost never do randori in jujutsu class, because they leave that to the judo classes (which they also teach). But if any one wanted to, they were welcome to do randori during jujutsu class.

    I talked to another guy from some other ryu (forget which one), and he said they do indeed practice randori in jujutsu class.

    As for the spelling, I checked my dictionary. "Jutsu " comes up as a pronounciation for that character. "Jitsu" does not. And I have never heard a Japanese person pronounce that character as "jitsu." It is a common character, used frequently.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Kingston, Canada
    Posts
    415
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Originally posted by Jake Tarbox
    As for the spelling, I checked my dictionary. "Jutsu " comes up as a pronounciation for that character. "Jitsu" does not. And I have never heard a Japanese person pronounce that character as "jitsu." It is a common character, used frequently.
    i'm sure it's just an incorrect spelling based on a non-japanese person's incorrect understanding of the pronunciation. but then, if you've ever had to listen to some japanese speak foreign languages ...

    later, jeff hamacher

  14. #14
    Jake Tarbox Guest

    Default

    I know plenty of non-Japanese martial artists who are well trained in their arts and intelligent, educated people, but who can't speak Japanese worth a
    They mangle the heck out of Japanese pronunciation. But since they are usually my sempai, I try to keep my mouth shut.

    When English words get adopted into Japanese, they get distorted just as bad.

    I am more concerned about people's waza being correct than their pronunciation.

    Hell, sum u' my sempai dont spek English too good, neither.

  15. #15
    Jake Tarbox Guest

    Default Jutsu

    Just for fun and edification:

    ?p


    ?p?@?@?F?@11 strokes, radical: gyougamae
    On-yomi: jutsu
    kun-yomi: sube, noberu, michi, waza

    -----------------------------------------
    Can all you world wide get text writen in Japanese characters? If I type in characters on E-budo, my computer can read them. but perhaps other systems can't read the characters, so it comes up in machine language. Let me know.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Discussions on modern "Ju-Jitsu", 2007 version
    By john_lord_b3 in forum Jujutsu
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 5th November 2007, 07:54
  2. The Scope of Jujutsu?
    By Jon S. in forum Jujutsu
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 14th June 2002, 23:33
  3. Submission Judo
    By Kit LeBlanc in forum Judo
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 28th July 2001, 11:39
  4. "Westernized jujutsu"
    By johan smits in forum Jujutsu
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 26th April 2001, 11:20

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •