Need diet and training suggestions.

[ATO]

Ok, well I'm going to start Iaido soon as well as resuming Aikido but I'm currently about 30lbs overweight (I'm 20, 5'11" and 220lbs. Damn computer jobs!). I need to get back in shape so I don't kill myself while training . My first concern would be dieting. I've heard so many contradicting diets that I don't know what to believe now. Does anyone have anything that has really worked for them? Also, in addition to general "working out" to get back into shape does anyone have any suggestions for upper body strength? I'n not interested in bulking up, just getting stronger. So to do that I need to do many reps with smaller weights rather than fewer reps with larger weights correct? Thanks for the suggestions guys.

[NoMan]

Originally posted by ATO
Ok, well I'm going to start Iaido soon as well as resuming Aikido but I'm currently about 30lbs overweight (I'm 20, 5'11" and 220lbs. Damn computer jobs!). I need to get back in shape so I don't kill myself while training . My first concern would be dieting. I've heard so many contradicting diets that I don't know what to believe now. Does anyone have anything that has really worked for them? Also, in addition to general "working out" to get back into shape does anyone have any suggestions for upper body strength? I'n not interested in bulking up, just getting stronger. So to do that I need to do many reps with smaller weights rather than fewer reps with larger weights correct? Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Hehe, with "bulking up", don't worry. I've been to many, many gyms, I work as a personal trainer, and I can honestly say I have never once in my entire life heard this said. "You have got to help me! I can't stop growing! I've got these massive pecs, huge shoulders, and sweeping thighs! How do you stop this?!" You honestly won't grow any more than you want to.

For upper body strength, be sure to work out all your various muscle groups, i.e. the supporting muscle groups, particularly your rotator cuffs and shoulder. This is where most injuries occur, because the shoulder joint sacrifices stability for mobility, making it easy to injure. You probably have what we call "couch potato fibers", (Don't get offended, almost all Americans have them. Basically, in older cultures, you wouldn't go days without doing strenous physical activity, so these fibers would never develop. Now, we go for literally months without doing anything really strenous, so these muscle fibers grow. It's a survival adaption so that when you were sick way long ago, you would have a fresh set of muscle fibers to help you escape danger. Unfortunately, these fibers were meant to be "disposeable", meaning that they tear very easily, and torn muscle fibers release a lot of toxins in the blood that irritate nerve endings, particularly after 48-72 hours of them sitting there.) Your first workout will probably feel like getting worked over with a baseball bat, so take it easy on yourself.

The best diet I have seen is called the "Zig zag diet". Basically, what causes 99% of all diets to fail in North America is not taking into consideration a very obvious and universal truth. If you are trying to lose weight, you must create a calorie deficit, so that your body is taking in less calories than it is burning, thus creating the effect of losing weight. The trick is to only create a calorie deficit of less than 500 calories, (that number varies as well), so that your body doesn't receive the signals that it is starving. (This happens in about 23 hours). When it gets that signal, it starts hording calories, meaning you have to eat even less to lose weight. That method is called "Crash dieting", and it is not recommended.

Anyway, on the zig-zag diet, figure out how often you are going to be working out, when, and how hard. For instance, let's say that your schedule looks like this.

Monday: Morning walk, Late Afternoon Weight lifting, martial arts training

Wednesday: Bicycling, Late Afternoon Weight lifting

Thursday: Martial arts training

Friday: Morning walk, late afternoon weight training

Okay, which days are you doing the least? That would be Tuesday, Saturday, and Sunday. These are the days you should cut down a little bit on your intake.

Monday is a particularly heavy day, so that is when you eat the most. Understand how this works? Basically, you have to calculate what you are doing and then get your dietary requirements from that. Here's five basic rules to good eating habits.

(From the ISSA book "Fitness: The Complete Guide")

Rule One: Always eat at least 5 times a day. Two or three meals simply isn't often enough. It's permissible to regard two of these meals as "snacks", provided they are comprised of sufficient calories to get you to your next meal, and they are comprised of the appropriate ratio of macronutrients as described in Rule Two (below). Your blood sugar and insulin levels will be controlled (and thus your energy level), you'll get protein in small amounts throughout the day to support growth and recovery, and (most important) body fat will not be stored, and instead mobilized as an energy source. Simply, by providing your body with a consistent and frequent supply of just the right number of calories, its need to store fat is reduced. Conversely, when you eat infrequently, your body recognizes a "famine"; situation, and your entire endocrine system (powerful hormones produced inside your body which control how you grow, recover and produce energy) is thrown for a loop. Then, too much of the food you consume is stored as body fat in preparation for the "famine" to come.

Rule Two: In planning each of your daily meals (or snacks), a ratio of approximately 1 part fats, 2 parts protein and 3 parts carbohydrates is a good place to begin. However, as you will see in Rule Three (below), this is merely an estimate for average people. Depending on the severity of your daily work routine and training protocol, you may need more or less carbohydrates for energy. Fat is essential for maintaining good health, and it is needed in the manufacture of many important hormones in your body, so do NOT attempt to eliminate fats from your diet! Just try to ensure that saturated fat (from animal sources) is kept low and that the unsaturated fats (e.g., canola oil or olive oil) predominate. Also, you must consume enough protein to support growth and recovery , and consume carbohydrates (primarily low glycemic index carbohydrates -- those that are converted to blood sugar slowly, so you can control your insulin levels).

Remember, carbohydrates are your body's preferred energy fuel source, although fats work well too, particularly during aerobic training provided the ratio of fats, protein and carbohydrates are kept within the recommended "zone". Remember that protein and carbohydrates both have 4 calories per gram, while fat has 9 calories per gram.

Rule Three: When you sit down to eat, ask yourself, "What am I going to be doing for the next three hours of my life?" Then, if you're taking a nap, eat less carbohydrate foods; if you're planning on a training session, eat more carbohydrates. And so forth. In other words, your carbs are adjusted up or down depending upon anticipated energy output. Remember, though, that your pre-workout carbohydrates must be of the variety that converts to blood sugar slowly (called low glycemic index carbs. Leave your fat intake low.

Rule Four: You can't lose fat quickly and efficiently unless you're on a negative calorie balance diet -- taking in fewer calories than you would need to stay the same weight. Neither can you gain muscle tissue quickly and efficiently unless you're on a positive calorie balance diet -- taking in more calories than you'd need to maintain your current weight. So, how can you gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? This paradox is easily explained.

Clearly, you can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, so you must alternate periods of negative calorie balance with periods of positive calorie balance. It doesn't matter if you're trying to lose total body weight, stay at the same total body weight or gain total body weight. This will

1) Readjust your BMR upwards, making it easier to keep the fat off, and

2) Through insulin and glucagon control, you support recovery and lean tissue building. Remember, if you want to put on lean muscle at the same time you're taking off fat, you MUST zigzag your calories! So, depending on your goal, follow one of these guidelines:

To Increase Total Body Weight By Losing Fat And Gaining Muscle:

For 4-5 days each week (including your training days), add 2 calories per pound of lean body weight to your normal daily caloric intake according to the rules described above. Spread these added calories among 5 meals per day. For example, a 170 pound person who is around 12 percent body fat should add approximately 300 calories per day to their diet. Over 5 meals, that equals 60 calorie increase per meal on the average. Then, on the remaining 2-3 days each week (including off-days or light training days), reduce your caloric intake by 2 calories per pound of body weight. Reduce each of your 5 meals per day according to rules above. For example, a 170 pound person who is around 12 percent body fat should subtract approximately 300 calories per day from their diet; over 5 meals, that equals 60 calorie decrease per meal on the average. Don't forget to adjust your calories upward monthly to reflect the new caloric needs of your increased muscle mass.

To Decrease Total Body Weight By Losing Fat And Gaining Muscle:

For 4-5 days each week (especially on off days and light training days), reduce your caloric intake by 2 calories per pound of body weight as described above. Then, on the remaining 2-3 days each week (including heavy training days), add 2 calories per pound of lean body weight to your normal daily caloric intake as described above. Don't forget to adjust your calories upward monthly to reflect the new caloric needs of your increased muscle mass.

To Stay The Same Total Body Weight But Lose Fat And Gain Muscle:

For 3-4 days each week, especially on off days or light training days, reduce your caloric intake, and increase your caloric intake for the other 3 or 4 days each week (especially on heavy training days) by 2 calories per pound of body weight as described above. Don't forget to adjust your calories upward monthly to reflect the new caloric needs of your increased muscle mass.

Rule Five: It is almost impossible to get all of the nutrients your body needs to remain healthy and active from food alone, particularly if you're in your negative calorie "downzag" period. So, it's important to supplement your diet with vitamins, minerals and other carefully selected substances to ensure maximum progress toward your fitness, health, muscle-building and fat loss goals. Also, no matter how hard you try, no matter how good a cook you are, or where you buy your food:

You can't always eat 5 or 6 times daily;

There are many instances where your body either requires or can make good use of certain micronutrients in greater amounts than what can be derived from food alone

A perfectly balanced diet cannot be maintained during periods of contest preparation or periods where there is a purposeful caloric restriction imposed.

Soil depletion, toxins in the food chain, overprocessing, overcooking, free radical formation in the body, and a host of other (sometimes medically related) factors all interact to make food less than totally nutritious or adequate in providing sound health and optimal fitness.

Periods of high-stress training require supernormal intake of many nutrients without a commensurable increase in caloric needs.

Periods of high-stress training creates a situation in which various benefits can be derived from substances not normally found in food or biosynthesized in the body in sufficient quantities but which are easily derived from botanical sources.

[Ermac6]

ATO,

I did the protein diet for awhile. That you can eat all the eggs, meat, and cheese you want. The first 14 days is 15 carbs limited, after that each week climbs up like 5 carbs, you will have to research that. I am thinking about going back on it since I need to loose some weight before I can join the military. The problem with it is that if you go for more then 2 months on it you can have liver failure, so after about 2 months it is recommended that you go back to eating normal foods but stay at the weight that you were when you stopped. After about 6 months you can go back on and loose some more weight. I actually dropped about 15lbs the first 2 weeks without even exercising, but if you exercise you are suppose to lose more. Just a suggestion. I am a big fan of meat and eggs so it did not break my heart to drop the other stuff. If I were you and I was going to try it I would research on it, there is a book, I will post the name of it when I find it so you can look at it. Its a great diet, atleast to me it was. Now that I quit it after x-mas I started to gain weight. The problem is that you will find a weight that will take a little time to drop a few more pounds, so if that means dropping some carbs off or exercising more, or maybe both that might help. Sorry to ramble on.

Brent Leach

[yamatodamashii]

I've actually been looking for an excuse to share this for a while--thanks!

Now, I've been into physical training for about 15 years. I've done a lot of research into performance nutrition and sports supplements (working on a certification now). And I just read a book that blows it all out of the water (no, I'm not getting paid to say this).
It is simple, it makes sense, and it FLIES IN THE FACE of most American diet programs. And it WORKS like you wouldn't believe. The book is called "Enter the Zone" (by Barry Sears, Ph.D.--who won the Nobel Prize for biochemistry for the research that went into this program).
Check the website at www.zoneperfect.com. If it doesn't save your life, it will certainly change it.

[NoMan]

Originally posted by yamatodamashii
I've actually been looking for an excuse to share this for a while--thanks!

Now, I've been into physical training for about 15 years. I've done a lot of research into performance nutrition and sports supplements (working on a certification now). And I just read a book that blows it all out of the water (no, I'm not getting paid to say this).
It is simple, it makes sense, and it FLIES IN THE FACE of most American diet programs. And it WORKS like you wouldn't believe. The book is called "Enter the Zone" (by Barry Sears, Ph.D.--who won the Nobel Prize for biochemistry for the research that went into this program).
Check the website at www.zoneperfect.com. If it doesn't save your life, it will certainly change it.

Ah yes, Dr. Barry Sears, good stuff. Jason, I think that URL doesn't have the www. in front of it, it's just http://zoneperfect.com

Anyway, the important thing in his diet is the hormone insulin. The fact is that food is the only way you can change the hormone insulin and make it effect your metabolic rates. If we get technical here, it's "host gland" is the Pancreas, and it promotes CHO (carbohydrate) transport into the cells, increases CHO catabolism, (breaking it down into smaller compounds), decreases blood glucose; and promotes the transportation of fatty acids and amino acids into the cells. The diet breaks down into the rate of calories being 40/30/30, or 30% carb, 20% protein, and 50% fat, (in terms of grams, not calories, since very few Americans calculate the conversion ratio between carbs, fat, and protein into actual calories). I can agree with most of his stuff, but there's some parts that greatly puzzle me.

Mainly, his point here, "Since your body has a limited capacity to store carbohydrates, insulin directs excess carbohydrates to be converted into fat. Your body has an unlimited ability to store food as fat! (Fat on the other hand does not stimulate insulin secretion.)"

Okay, but whether you eat a high fat diet, or a low fat diet, you will gain weight if you eating more than you can burn at that given time. (Basically, if you are eating more than you can burn in whatever period it is until your next meal). W

The breakdown of triglycerides (fat, but fat is also considered mono and di glycerides as well) by lipases is under hormonal control. The main enzymes involved are epinepherine, glucagon, and insulin. Epinepherine and glucagon activate the breakdown of lipolysis while insulin inhibits fat breakdown.

Triglyceride breakdown is facilitated by three enzymes:

Triacylglycerol lipase
Diacyclglycerol lipase
Monoacylglycerol lipase

Only triacylglycerol lipase is activated by epenephrine.

As with glycogen breakdown, the hormone activation of triacylglyerol lipase occurs through a cyclic AMP (Adenosine Monophosphate) cascade. This provides the cell with the ability to control lipase activation and amplify the signal of the hormone.

"High carbohydrate-low fat diets".

Now, note that a high carbohydrate diet will not free you from fat accumulation. Glucose can be converted to fatty acids and glycerol vial acetyl CoA and glyceraldehyde 3 phosphate respectively. Your bodies ability to do this is absolutely amazing.

"Starvation diets":

On the other hand starvation (or a high fat/low carbohydrate/low protein diet) will cause other problems. For fats to be converted to citric acid, oxaloacetate must be available. Without oxaloacetate, citric acid cannot be formed and acetyl-CoA cannot be further processed.

Oxaloacetate can be produced from the breakdown of certain amino acids. However a person on a high fat/low carbohydrate/low protein diet, will need to use the oxaloacetate for gluconeogenesis. (This is the synthesis of glucose from non-carbohydrate precursors in the form of amino acids and glycerol).

Fatty acid breakdown however must still occur for ATP generation and acetyl-CoA will need to be processed through an alternative pathway. This pathway leads to the formation of ketone bodies. The amino acids will need to be derived from muscle tissue, leading to muscle wastage.

Ah, so what's all that gibberish mean? It means eat a balanced diet and don't go too far to one end of the pool. If we're talking about purely hormonal production, and changing that using supplements in terms of fat loss, here are the good guys:

Ephedrine - This can increase the amount of epinephrine in the body which is one of the prime binders to the fat cell receptors to cause fatty acids to be released. This raises the levels of cyclic AMP.

Growth hormone and cortisol - Both modify the adipose cells so that more fat is broken down for the same amount of stimulation.

Theophylline (tea) and caffeine (coffee) Both of these chemicals inhibit an enzyme called phosphodiesterase (an enzyme that removes cyclic AMP.) By inhibiting this enzyme you get more cyclic AMP and more fat breakdown.

The bad guys:

Insulin and nicotinic acid - Both of these inhibit fat breakdown by increasing the production of phosphodiesterase.

So once you get cyclic AMP going, you'll have fatty acids in the blood stream. If you leave them their they'll just go back into the adipose tissue so you'll want the muscle to burn it. As well you'll want to reduce the glycogen from your muscles so that on your next meal the glucose goes there instead of back to the adipose tissue.

Anyway, (I've only read parts of the book), what I'm wondering is what he advocates for marathon runners, or anyone who uses higher than normal levels of glycogen? Is it always 40/30/30 or are there exceptions to the rule?

[yamatodamashii]

Actually, I'm only three-quarters done with the book. The only exception he has mentioned to the rule is "truly elite athletes" (to be defined later), who should eat twice as many FAT calories (all monounsaturated).
He points out that by keeping a protein/carbohydrate balance (and thus insulin/glucagon), fat becomes a much more usable energy source; and while the average marathon runner has *just enough* stored glycogen to finish a marathon, he would have enough stored bodyfat to finish [three or four digits' worth, I don't recall offhand] marathons.
I believe that the point he makes is that marathon runners do not have higher-than-average "glycogen" requirements, but higher-than-average "energy" requirements--and on the diet that he recommends, rather than the standard carbo-load, fat becomes a viable source of said energy.

[ATO]

Wow, talk about overload of information! . Thanks for the replies, I think I'm going to get that book this week. I like the zigzag diet idea as well but I'll have to see if I can actually do that one with my crazy schedule.

Allen

[Uranium235]

I have always been overweight. Over the last year I have become very concious of how I treat my body.

These days I drink loads of water and lots of fruit and raw veggies. As far asmeat I eat only fish chicken and bison, in that order of frequency. I have cut out all candy and soda. I will have the occational (once every few weeks) cookie or brownie and I like to drink tea about once a week. At least once a week I go to a diner and eat a bad meal of burgers and fries.

While I have lost some weight I have more to drop and find that the information you fine people have posted is highly valuable. Unfortunatly I simply don't have the time to calculate out meals on a daily basis.

I do watch what I buy, i do read labels, but I don't know how much lean mass I have and don't really have the the time to calculate out meals etc.

Can a person like myself simply set up two sets of meals. One for excersize days and one for non exersize days, and safely lose weight and maintain good health? I say this because I can eat the same meals every day. Once I ate the same things for lunch and breakfast for over a year. If I had two sets of meals that I could plan for when I shop and make according to what day it is then I would be set.

Hopefully over the next two years my life will become less hectic but until it does I cannot hope to support the overhead of thouroghly planning out my eating on a daily basis. If I do suceed in making my life less hectic I can devote some time to planning out a more varied diet but until then I have little hope I fear.

U-235

[NoMan]

Originally posted by Uranium235
I have always been overweight. Over the last year I have become very concious of how I treat my body.

These days I drink loads of water and lots of fruit and raw veggies. As far asmeat I eat only fish chicken and bison, in that order of frequency. I have cut out all candy and soda. I will have the occational (once every few weeks) cookie or brownie and I like to drink tea about once a week. At least once a week I go to a diner and eat a bad meal of burgers and fries.

While I have lost some weight I have more to drop and find that the information you fine people have posted is highly valuable. Unfortunatly I simply don't have the time to calculate out meals on a daily basis.

I do watch what I buy, i do read labels, but I don't know how much lean mass I have and don't really have the the time to calculate out meals etc.

Can a person like myself simply set up two sets of meals. One for excersize days and one for non exersize days, and safely lose weight and maintain good health? I say this because I can eat the same meals every day. Once I ate the same things for lunch and breakfast for over a year. If I had two sets of meals that I could plan for when I shop and make according to what day it is then I would be set.

Hopefully over the next two years my life will become less hectic but until it does I cannot hope to support the overhead of thouroghly planning out my eating on a daily basis. If I do suceed in making my life less hectic I can devote some time to planning out a more varied diet but until then I have little hope I fear.

U-235

From what I understand, that's the big boost with books like, "The Zone", (I believe it has a sequel if I'm not mistaken?) They already calculate it for you, and even have bars you can buy from their website in case you miss meals or are really on the go.

[yamatodamashii]

I would say that in the case of The Zone, the big boost is the fact that it was designed by a biochemist who won the Nobel prize for the research that led to the program. Of course, there is also a website (as above) where you can get snack bars, meal-replacement drinks, and even fully prepared meals.

[JimmyCrow]

What ever diet & exercise program you choose be careful in your execution of it. I am a 6'2", 190 lbs, 34 year old male. Five years ago I weighed almost 240 lbs. and did nothing in the way of exercise. My diet consisted of pizza, beer & hamburgers. I decided to make a change when I took up Martial Arts and was having trouble keeping up with the people in my class. I got on the Zone diet and began a strict regime of running and MA training. Within a year I had lost 30 lbs. I decided to kick it up a notch and redoubled my efforts because I wanted to weigh 180 lbs. the next year. I DID NOT alter my diet however. The Zone diet is quite strict and recommends you do not stray from the guidelines it sets out for you. I had so much energy I felt like I was 15 years old again. Then one day every thing seemed to change. I felt more and more tired and sore after each run or MA workout I did. I got worried and went to see my doctor who could find nothing wrong with me. He informed me that I was the picture of health and was probably just suffering from stress. When my weight had dropped to 175 lbs I decided to get a second opinion. My new doctor informed me that I had developed Hyper-thyroidism. He said this was probably a direct result of my over doing it with the running and workouts while trying to subsist on a diet program. I found out I should have been ingesting 2 and a half times the calories I had been. To get to the point I now have to take a pill every morning for the rest of life. In my quest to stay young I have only made myself older. I know the Zone diet is not to blame for this, I am. If you decided to do it, pay close attention to the details.

When they say consult your doctor before going on any diet or exercising program, they are not kidding.

Good Luck

Jimmy Crow