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Thread: Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto-ryu

  1. #1
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    Smile Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto-ryu

    ***THANK YOU TO EVERYONE THAT HAS EMAILED ME.

    PLEASE CAN ANYONE ELSE WANTING A COPY NOT EMAIL ME AT THIS PRESENT TIME. I AM BUSY TRYING TO SORT OUT THE TAPES FOR THOSE THAT HAVE ALREADY CONTACTED ME.

    I WILL PLACE ANOTHER THREAD WHEN I KNOW THE TAPES HAVE BEEN RECIEVED AND THEN WE CAN ORGANISE COPIES FOR OTHER INTRESTED PARTIES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE!*****

    MICHAEL BECKER


    Hello All

    There seems to be some intrest in the BBC documentary on the Katori Shinto Ryu I mentioned in another thread.
    I offered to send out five copies to intrested people if they emailed me, but I think that the demand is likely to outstrip availabililty.

    So, I have an idea. I am prepared to do another five copies ( total of ten ). I dont want any money because as I have said before, I am not in the business of pirating videos ( I am footing all the costs out of my own pocket).

    What I would like is for some of the people that recieve a copy to volunteer to do the same. So, for example, if five people recieve a copy and then send out five copies themselves, then that means that 30 people in total can have a copy.

    I am not insisting on this and anyone that recieves a copy will not have their name or details passed on whatsoever. But, since I am sending out free copies, it would be nice for those recieving one to help out other intrested parties.

    As it stands, I have six copies left to send out. If anyone wants one then they can email me directly and I will get them a tape out.

    Once the tapes are gone I will post a message here to tell people.

    So dont be shy, email me if you are intrested!

    [Edited by Michael Becker on 06-29-2000 at 06:10 AM]
    Michael Becker

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    Default

    Hello Again,

    Thank you for the response.

    I have had slightly more than ten emails from people willing to make copies for others which is great!

    Because all of those that replied said that they would be prepared to make a copy for intrested people then I will make sure that everyone that emailed gets a copy.

    The video will be in PAL format because I taped the program from English TV. However, if you look in the Yellow Pages, you can find people that can make you a copy in NTSC format. I have a brother in the US and he has been able to have videos converted from NTSC into PAL-I assume the reverse can be done.

    So, I will start copying in the next couple of days and email people directly when I post a copy out to them.

    IF ANYONE ELSE WOULD LIKE A COPY, PLEASE BE PATIENT. I WILL GET THE VIDEOS SENT OUT AND THEN WE CAN TRY TO ORGANISE SOMETHING AFTER I KNOW THEY HAVE BEEN RECIEVED.
    Michael Becker

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    Exclamation

    PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT ME REGARDING COPIES OF THIS TAPE.

    I APPRECIATE THAT THERE IS CONTINUING INTREST BUT I WILL NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, BE SENDING ANY FURTHER COPIES OUT-I HAVE ALREADY SENT OUT NEARLY 20 AT MY OWN EXPENSE. ANY FURTHER EMAIL ENQUIRES WILL NOT BE REPLIED TO.

    THANK YOU

    Michael Becker

    [Edited by Michael Becker on 01-22-2001 at 06:38 AM]
    Michael Becker

  4. #4
    Yamantaka Guest

    Talking TSKSR TAPE

    Hello, Michael!

    I'm one of the happy recipients of your tape. Simply fantastic. It's unbelievable that such a documentary was aired on tv...till we see that it was from the BBC!
    As I already possessed a tape from the other TSKSR branch(the Sugino Sensei one), it was good to compare the two men(Sugino and Risuke Ohtake).
    Thanks again for your good will and best regards
    Yamantaka

  5. #5
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    Default TSKSR tape

    I would be interested in a copy of the TSKSR tape.

    BTW, I'm from WV.

    Thanks!


  6. #6
    artist Guest

    Default



    [Edited by artist on 07-27-2000 at 04:06 PM]

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    Smile Video Tape



    I would also like a copy of the program " way of the Warrior" I live in the U.S and would need a NTSC format.


    Thank You



    ken allgeier
    " The FUTURE is UNWRITTEN,KNOW YOUR RIGHTS"
    The Clash.

  8. #8
    Goon Jhuen Weng Guest

    Default

    I would truly appreciate a copy as well. I'm living in Australia and my email is in the profile section and I use NTSC for my video player. Thanks a lot!

  9. #9
    Joanne Miller Guest

    Angry I don't think it's a good idea...

    Although it's a nice thought sharing such videos to others without charging them anything I think one should consider more than just the good will of the act.Sometimes although the intentions are good they might spawn something else which is not favourable.

    Regarding the circulation of these series about Katori Shinto Ryu (or any such tapes for that matter)I feel it's like giving "A loaded gun" indescriminately to someone one doesn't know.(Although the series was shown on television). It's a personal view but it carries over to my opinion why I am not keen on having translations of rare budo material from Japanese to English as well. I feel the opportunity to misuse would be greater than the benifits it would reap. Just my opinion though..

    It would be extremly regrettable if such tapes fall into wrong hands where someone just viewing snippets from such footage go ahead and start dishing out "advise" the Katori Shinto Ryu "way" as done by Otake sensei or start comparing systems when they are not even Monjin of the ryu to begin with.It's extremely disgraceful if that happens.

    So although the intentions are good I feel it's just NOT a good idea to circulate such items around... If one manages to catch it on television it's fine otherwise I don't see the point circulating it to let as many people see it as possible. Hopefully, someone from Shinbukan who is in a better position would have some comments with regards to this issue..

    Regards,

    [Edited by Joanne Miller on 07-26-2000 at 02:45 AM]

  10. #10
    MarkF Guest

    Default

    Hi, Artist,
    Since there is no way yet of sending you a private message, please note the forum rules and sign with your full name. You may choose the signature feature in your profile, and never have to worry about it again

    Joanne,
    Yours is also well intentioned but probably a little late. A teacher of mine back in the sixties once said: "The most dangerous person is one with a little knowledge of how to hurt people, but without sufficient knowledge as NOT to hurt them." But a video of this type on this forum is not likly to cause anyone harm. The one who wishes to call h/herself "Dr. Dai soki soto pop" and pass h/herself off as a master usually does little damage, except to h/herself. Your concern, though, is very much appreciated.

  11. #11
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    Dear Joanne

    I have to say that I find your comments quite incredible!
    Have you actually seen the program in question? If not, how can you possibly say that it should not be circulated?

    The BBC produced the 'Way of the Warrior' series for the benefit of the general public so that people could get an accurate picture of the martial arts and what they represent. Would it be better if the only sources of information were some of the rags that proclaim themselves to be martial arts magazines?

    Since Otake sensei provided the information for the program and was featured throughout I dont think you are qualified to condemn. Or are you implying that you know better than the head teaching master of the TSKSR what should and shouldnt be shown?

    Otake sensei to my knowledge is very particular about what he demonstrates in public, keeping a large part of the schools teachings private.

    If you want to vent your spleen over material irresponsibly passed on then why dont you go and crusade over the Dim Mak videos and books that are being sold.

    I find your attitude that information regarding certain schools should be kept hidden away from prying eyes and be the sole preserve of an elite few to be very small minded.

    Do you think the looney fringe would consult translations of rare texts? Basic grammar seems to be beyond many of them. What they dont know they simply make up!

    Are you seriously suggesting that by sending out copies of the program I will be responsible for the spawning of numerous Joke-jutsu and Wizard Ryu schools? Dont talk rubbish!

    I have went to some effort to ensure that as many people as possible could see the program. The recipients seem to be quite happy about this as I have not had any complaints.
    Of course they could be plotting devious things that I dont know about. I doubt it though.

    Has it not occured to you that the best way to prevent the frauds from duping people is to make sure that as much legitimate information as possible is available to the public?

    Censorship is very rarely justifiable in a free society.

    Fortunately not everyone wants to keep their toys to themselves.

    Just my opinion of course.
    Michael Becker

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    I very much agree with Michael here.

    I have seen this program produced by the BBC.
    While it is extremely well done (one of the best I have ever seen) it is in no way instructional!
    This must have been the intention of both the producers and Otake sensei.

    A more instructional work would be the three volumes, by Otake and Draeger, on TSKSR; "The Deity and the Sword".

    In this documentary the producers have focused on following Otake sensei in his daily life, including his teaching of the Katori Shinto ryu, and explaining the origins, history and philosophy of this tradition.

    The reason for Otake's participation, and the nature of this documentary, must have been that as many as possible should have the opportunity to see some of this ryuha, as well as explaining very common misunderstandings about Japanese martial arts.

    I think that the BBC, Otake sensei and Michael have done a great job to inform the public and I can't see how any harm could possibly come out of it. Rather the opposite.

    Regards,
    Ulf Undmark

  13. #13
    Guest

    Default

    Hi,

    I must agree with Mr Becker here. The fact that the current headmaster of TSKSR felt comfortable with this offering to the public is all that needs to be said. Otake Sensei is the authority here. It's that simple. If he is comfortable with the public having access to the video then no one has the authority to question his decision. You may have the right to question his decision but not the expertise or authority. I for one have several tapes of Otake/TSKSR. I honestly can't imagine the problem with offering the accurate information of a koryu from the headmaster. It stretches credulity.

    Respectfully,

  14. #14
    Joanne Miller Guest

    Angry I think you have mistaken my post.

    Hello Mr Becker,
    Given that I startd this particular post it's only right of me to respond.

    Originally posted by Michael Becker
    I dont think you are qualified to condemn. Or are you implying that you know better than the head teaching master of the TSKSR what should and shouldnt be shown?
    I think you have misinterpret the nature of my post. I never condemmed (as you put it in your words) the production. And I suggest you should re-read my post carefully to see if there is any line suggesting I condem it. Neither have I impled that I know better than the head teacher master of the TSKSR and I certainly don't know how you could twist my views into that direction. Maybe my views differ from yours and might incest you but to suggest that of me (know better that the head teaching master..)and twist it around is pretty unfair.

    Originally posted by Michael Becker
    If you want to vent your spleen over material irresponsibly passed on then why dont you go and crusade over the Dim Mak videos and books that are being sold
    I am not on a crusade nor am I venting myself on anything and I am certainly no budo-guarding-vigilante. My point of my previous post is that your act of kindness might be a 2 edge sword. Point being we would not know who might be on the reciving on of such items.(Pass to one person and person makes copies to distribute to others) I am just giving my side of the prepective what MIGHT happen , I didn't said that it defiently would happen.

    Originally posted by Michael Becker
    Do you think the looney fringe would consult translations of rare texts? Basic grammar seems to be beyond many of them.
    Defintely those who wish to dabble into such rare text can't understand such language given that such documents are written in classical style with their own meanings.Furthermore mere ability to understand classical forms does not mean one could read it of like a book as such meanings require intiation into the system. However with a program (video) being visual it's different...


    Originally posted by Michael Becker
    Are you seriously suggesting that by sending out copies of the program I will be responsible for the spawning of numerous Joke-jutsu and Wizard Ryu schools? Dont talk rubbish![/B]
    I never suggested that you are responsible for the spawning of such schools with regards to the circulation of the production. Maybe because my message was directed to the thread that you feel I am attacking you and blaming you for "wizard ryu" schools which are around.If you feel that way then I think you are mistaken. My intention was to point out the possible "unfavourable" outcomes that might occur. I did not suggest that you would be cause of it.

    Originally posted by Michael Becker
    Of course they could be plotting devious things that I dont know about. I doubt it though.![/B]
    I am not accusing anyone who recieve such tapes to do devious things but as I said in my earlier message and as you stated in the line above there could be.That's my intention on my previous post. We wouldn't know especially if the person who recieves it makes duplicates and pass it around. Sort of like an exponential growth thing. Some of us on this board know how Katori's name have been mis-use by a certain group and when confronted deny it. My point of my post is that it could happen again but we wouldn't know. Sometimes doing something might have an effect one does not intent from the first place. Be in good or bad we wouldn't know. *Just like my previous message where my intentions were misread and taken to mean I am questioning the production by the head teacher of TSKSR which I am not*


    Originally posted by Michael Becker
    Has it not occured to you that the best way to prevent the frauds from duping people is to make sure that as much legitimate information as possible is available to the public?.[/B]
    Yes, I defiently agree on that. With works done by pioneering western martial art writers these days it's defiently a harder time for the frauds. However with the sharing of such information there is always a possibilty it could give rise to "smarter frauds" who make use of snippets of such information to "cloud" people.In short I am not condemming the production (That was never was my intention nor would I be bold enough to even hold a figment of such incorrigble behaviour in me) nor was my intention to condemm your action.The reason of my previous post is to offer my prespective that sometimes good things turn bad when they were not intended to be so in the first place as well as to point out the possible "unfavourable" outcomes that might occur.


    With Regards to Mr Threadgill,

    Originally posted by Toby Threadgill
    You may have the right to question his decision but not the expertise or authority.
    As replied to Mr Becker above. I never did once question the decision of TSKSR I suggest you read my previous post careful with regard to my intentions. In that statement of yours it apparently makes it seem that I "had" said such things (question expertise or authority) when I did not. It gives others a false impression of the nature of my post by twisting my intentions. I am sure you did not do so with malice but you choice of words made it seem such. With things such as a forums sometimes intentions can be misread with one's choice of words as one rely on words to convey one's feelings. But on the whole I take it people mean what they say in good faith unless I am mistaken..

    Regards,

    [Edited by Joanne Miller on 07-26-2000 at 10:28 AM]

  15. #15
    Ken Shafer Guest

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    Hello Ms. Miller,

    I would have to concur with Mr. Becker on this. I don't see how anyone could 'claim' knowledge of Katori Shinto Ryu by watching this documentary (or even remotely hope to BS their way through a conversation about KSR). This tape is not even remotely instructional. It *might* provide a practitioner of Katori Shinto Ryu some visual reminders for practice purposes (not being a KSR practitioner myself, I felt I should add that caveat).

    I don't believe knowledge is to be kept secret; it is to be shared *responsibly* by those entrusted with it. As Mr. Becker stated, this program was aired on the BBC (not even a pay/cable channel) and it was done with Otake Sensei's sole and active participation/blessing obviously. He knows best in this as Katori Shinto Ryu is *his* system to administer as he sees fit.

    I may have missed this in your two posts on this topic but, have you seen the program in question? Did you receive a tape from Mr. Becker that prompted this?

    You may have not intended to appear to condemn Mr. Becker (or the BBC program) but that is certainly how it came across. I think your 'two edged sword' argument is a bit too alarmist, IMHO. Your desire to withhold 'ancient texts' from the masses is exactly the type of secrecy that has perpetuated tai chi frauds for so long (as one worldwide example). Were those classical texts kept from the masses 'for their own protection'? I think not. So as not to make myself out to be an authority on TCC, I have spent the last 8 odd months researching it (not practicing it) and the internal arts in general just trying to make heads or tails of who is a real TCC practitioner and who isn't.

    The withholding of information has _directly_ aided the perpetuation of frauds in the martial arts. I don't see how anyone could argue that theory (with facts to back up there assertion). I am sorry to be rude, but I think your approach is flawed Ms. Miller. You may have good intentions, but many bad things happen because of people with good intentions.

    To make my background in this clear, I did receive a tape of the program in question from Mr. Becker. I thought it was excellent and a very valuable additional to my MA's library! I thank him for his generosity.

    Regards,

    Ken Shafer

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