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Thread: Questions from newbie in Sweden

  1. #1
    Gigante Guest

    Default Questions from newbie in Sweden

    Hi folks !

    Here's the deal...
    As a TKD practioner I feel kind of limited when it comes to.. well I guess all fighting except for stand-up kicking.. 8-)

    I've spent some time searching for a complement... I want to practice grappling, ground-fighting, and close combat hand techniques would be nice. This I want for self-defense, thus it has to be effective in real-life.

    So.. I'm thinking maybe ju-jutsu... or possibly some filippinian art...

    Questions :

    Ju-jutsu or BJJ... how do you "classic" ju-jutsu people feel about BJJ ? I used to think it was like an "add-on" to classic Ju-jutsu, but now I don't know. Is it a complete style including everything Ju-jutsu has, only different ? And how much is it different ?

    What do you know of the ju-jutsu available in Uppsala, Sweden ?

    How similar is it to Judo? I trained Judo for about 2 years when I was younger. How much throwing techs is it compared to Judo? How much ground-work compared to Judo ?

    Best regards,
    Johan Eliasson.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Likes (received)


    Hej johan! Hur är läget?

    Sorry for the english guys....

    BJJ is actually derivied from Judo and some people say that everything you can find in BJJ, you can find in Judo. I guess the focus is a bit different between the two styles...

    When it comes to Ju-jutsu in Uppsala I belive you should take a look at Fredrik Blom is the one you should contact...

    Hope this helped a bit...


  3. #3
    Gigante Guest


    Hejsan Tommy !

    Tack för din länk, jag hittade en annan hemsida också, för Uppsala Ju-jutsu klubb :
    .. så jag har iaf två ställen som jag kan spana in! 8-)

    BJJ = Judo? Well from what I've seen from UFC it sure looks like Judo...

    I'll go and check these Ju-jutsu clubs out, if it looks like an ok place I'll try to convince my girlfriend to join me! 8-)
    It won't be easy, I've been trying some time to get her interested in martial arts.. but she claims she is too much of a pacifist to train MA...

    I figure if there's lots of women, and female instructors, she will feel more at home. Also, she's small and fragile.. I'm a bit worried that she will be crushed... 8-) If there's plenty of women for her to spar with, it shold be easier for her...
    Generally, do men and women train with each other? Or do the women pair up with each other etc ?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Likes (received)


    Hi Johan,

    There are a huge range of styles in ju jutsu, so it's difficult to generalise. Some styles resemble Aikido while others look more like Goju.

    In a nutshell though, if you can imagine judo with no rules, no weight classes, and all the "fun" stuff (striking, weapons, standing dislocations & takedowns etc.) put back into it, that's ju jutsu!

    Don't get too wrapped up in the overemphasis on "groundfighting". Taking an attacker to the ground is fine in one-on-one competitions (eg judo), but it's bad practise for general self defence, especially if there are multiple attackers.

    If you stay on your feet and force your attacker to the ground, you have a major advantage. Conversely, it's absolutely imperative that you learn how to defend yourself if you find yourself on the ground. So yes, ground techniques are a vital part of the ju jutsu curriculum, but they are approached in an entirely different way to judo and other derivatives.
    Steve Moller

    "Thrice armed are they who know Ju Jutsu"

  5. #5
    Gigante Guest


    There are no weight classes ?? Hehehe advantage to me!! 8-)

    Steve, yes I just want to practice "everything"... and ju-jutsu sounds about right...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Melbourne, Australia
    Likes (received)

    Default Jujutsu in Sweden

    Hi Johan,
    You might also try this organization.
    Geographically, I can't remember where Uppsala is, but there is plenty of good Jujutsu in Sweden.
    Best of luck
    Best wishes

    Howard Quick

    Shinkendo Australia - Shibucho
    Senjutsu Ryu Jujitsu
    Kokusai Toyama Ryu Renmei

  7. #7
    Richard Guest


    Hej Johan,

    Ännu en från Sverige.

    Now over to english :-)

    Just wanted to inform you that the martial arts covered in the Bujinkan organisation includes several old jujutsu-styles. None of which has been changed in modern times to minimize damages during sport competitions :-) (I.e. the techniques that break the opponents wrist, throws the opponent on his head etc. No sport-budo but real fighting techniques).

    There is a training place in Uppsala. You might want to go there and ask them about jujutsu.

    Take a look at: for an address.

    Good luck!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Bellevue, WA
    Likes (received)

    Thumbs up

    Hi Johan! To help answer your questions in regards to what you should study, first of all the proper term and spelling is Filipino Martial Arts, and Ju-Jutsu is what I study.

    Remember that Judo and BJJ is all derived from Classical Ju-jutsu Systems. So there are many similarities but also many differences as well. For example, Judo throws rely on grabbing the judogi (uniform) to help facilitate kuzushi (unbalancing)and executing the throws for ippon. In our system we are taught to throw without relying on using garment to assist in our throws. We also do not group each other in weight classes, you throw everyone regardless of their weight. Which makes sense since we do not compete and in a street fight you have no idea how heavy your opponent will be. My instructor is fond of reminding us to assume that the opponent will be bigger and stronger than we are.

    As far as groundfighting, I agree with Steve Moller's post. Groundfighting is a very legitimate facet of combat but it should not be your total focus. Our school uses many techniques on the ground that we learn from standing on our feet. The reason we do practice ne-waza is to learn how to make the best out of the worst position to be in. Great place to be in competition or one on one fights, but let's be practical again, you will not want to be on your back with multiple attackers on a concrete surface.

    So basically what it boils down to is whether or not you want to do competitions. Either way, learning Judo or BJJ can only help you in your progression as a fighter, but remember like Steve Moller said, the "fun stuff" is all in Ju-Jutsu! Good luck in your search!

    Train Hard and Eat Plenty!
    -Vincent Azanza-

  9. #9
    Kit LeBlanc Guest


    Originally posted by Stevo
    Hi Johan,

    Don't get too wrapped up in the overemphasis on "groundfighting". Taking an attacker to the ground is fine in one-on-one competitions (eg judo), but it's bad practise for general self defence, especially if there are multiple attackers.

    *NO* unarmed art is effective against multiple, motivated attackers. Anyone that tells you there is is selling something.

    Certainly facility in groundfighting is not the be all and end all, but since many people neglect realistic groundfighting practice, doing so only in kata form, you will be ahead of the game if you train BJJ since you will be trained to do everything against an actually resisting attacker. That way all the people who recommend you NOT practice with an emphasis on groundfighting will be at your mercy!!!!

    The benefit of judo/BJJ is that it trains FULL CONTACT and FREESTYLE. You work your techniques against someone doing everything in their power to work techniques against you, and you can do so safely. This is extremely useful in preparation for real world fighting. You just add all the dangerous stuff back in when it is for real. But, many judo dojo don't do very much groundfighting, and no longer practice a lot of the forbidden techniques which come into play more often in actual fighting situations.

    The claim that you cannot use the throws without gripping the gi simply shows ignorance of judo and thus should not be taken as advice. Weight classes only come into play in actual competition, for practice and sparring you will go against people of all different weights, sizes and specialties.

    Go here for an excellent discussion on this very board about Judo in self defense:

    Still, going over the advice that has been given so far, I would say you may in fact be better off with Brazilian jujutsu and the Filipino arts. The Filipino methods will provide stick and edged weapons skills, as well as unarmed strikes and locks like in jujutsu, so overall it *may* be helpful if, God forbid, you are ever in a situation that involves multiple attackers (far more than traditional kata-jujutsu will, in my opinion)

    While the "fun stuff" may be in jujutsu, the "stuff that works" is in BJJ and Filipino arts, plus Judo, muay Thai, etc. arts that practice full contact in non-prearranged and non-tanking situations.
    Last edited by Kit LeBlanc; 12th October 2001 at 17:21.

  10. #10
    Zoyashi Guest


    Hey Johan,
    There are a couple of gentlemen in my Jujitsu dojo who used to do Tae Kwon Do... they are rough and tough! Tae kwon do + ju-jitsu is a good mix. I've found that Tae kwon do fighters bring a lot of body flexibilty to the table. Which helps a lot when you're stacked on your head with your arms twisted the wrong way!

    Best of luck in your search,

    Josh Gepner

  11. #11
    Gigante Guest


    Hello again!

    I just thought I'd tell you that I checked out "Uppsala Ju-Jutsu Klubb" and it seemed to be a very nice place, lots of friendly people! So I'll start training there tomorrow, actually!

    I visited them last week for the beginner training session, but I had read the schedule wrong, there was just a bunch of blue belts there! Anyway they invited me to join them and I did, and had lots of fun! I did pretty good, I think I surprised them! 8-)
    I'm glad I studied Judo for two years in my early teens, I had no problems with the breakfalls or throws! Ok, nuff bragging. 8-)

    Does ground-combat training start right away or at later levels ?
    What about throws? How long time do you have to study to advance to another belt?
    In TKD we have more belt levels so I guess there are shorter time required for each than in JJ.

  12. #12


    Glad you found a club you like!

    In reference to Kit LeBlanc's post - I agree with most of what you say re. the importance of sparring with resisting opponents. But that can be an element of jujutsu too. In the club I belong to we regularly do randori both for throws (a la judo) and on the ground (plus random attack & circle drills involving striking for higher grades). Now admittedly we don't devote quite as much time to that style of practise as a dedicated judo or BJJ class, but it is there.
    Randori is what I enjoy the most. In an ideal world with limitless time and money I would love to crosstrain in judo, Muay Thai, BJJ, Aikido and Escrima. What I love about jujutsu is that it provides a way for me to practise a whole variety of skills within one framework and within the limited amount of training time I have available.
    I know there's a danger of ending up with a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none approach but I'm willing to live with the compromise.
    I don't know if my club is typical. It is a gendai (gaijin?!) style. And it has its flaws and weaknesses. But I did want to point out that not all jujutsu consists of prearranged partner drills.


    London, UK

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Aurora, CO
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    One of the items that I think has been missed in the replies so far has to do with your question regarding a “complete system.” My definition is a “complete system” provides you with the ability address the following conditions (and combinations of these):

    - Range—Close, Short, Medium, or Long.
    - Response—Nuisance, or violent attack.
    - Levels—Individual unarmed, individual armed, multiple attacker unarmed, or multiple attacker armed.
    - Flexibility—The ability to move and adjust based on changes in any or all of the above areas.
    - Armament—armed or unarmed.

    Then I would suggest you establish a good definition of what you are referring to by “jujutsu.” I would define traditional jujutsu in the following way (just my opinion):

    Traditional Jujutsu is considered a Japanese cultural art (as are kado, or flower arrangement; chado, or tea ceremony; and shodo, calligraphy). Traditional Jujutsu systems all have documented and verifiable lineages. It is composed of techniques such as joint locking, throwing, sweeping, reaping, choking, and striking with all parts of the body. Weapons' training is also an integral part of Jujutsu, typically, knife, sword, and staff. The essential principle of Jujutsu is to defeat the enemy with any and all means, using minimal force. Force rarely ever meets force directly and techniques should not need to be strong-armed to be effective. Movements emphasize circularity to take advantage of the attacker's momentum to break the opponents balance in preparation for joint locking or throwing techniques.

    I would then suggest you also look into the many modern goshin-jutsu systems. Goshin-jutsu, which means self-defense in Japanese, is defined as a modern martial art system based on Japanese jujutsu and or Kempo. These are systems created or founded after the Meiji period (after 1868), frequently they are gendai sogo bujutsu systems or modern composite martial art. These systems have a primary focus on modern day defensive tactics, and less focus on traditional or classical techniques. These are the most frequently encountered systems using the classification “jujutsu,” “jujitsu,” or jiujitsu”—true traditional jujutsu systems are very rare and very hard to come by. These systems tend to be well rounded, and have a curriculum that is geared toward modern street or urban situations.

    In closing I do not want to provide a direct response to you inquiry, since my response would only reflect my opinion, and since I do not have enough information available to provide an informed opinion (such as the environment you live in, past training experience, physical condition and build, etc). Instead I have decided to provide information that you can use to form your own opinion.

    I hope this is useful.
    Last edited by bdenison; 31st January 2002 at 12:56.
    Brett Denison

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Uppsala, Sweden
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    Default The Swedish situation


    Just to add a few cents about all this...

    All the definitions on what jujutsu may or may not be are all fine and so (I don't agree with all what's written, but on the other hand since most ryu(ha) are different, so may the opinions be).
    The next thing to consider (or probably even the first) is what kind of jujutsu that do exist in Sweden today.
    To be quite honest, there are three different levels of jujutsu IMHO (again in Sweden):
    1) Traditional japanese/koryu jujutsu
    2) Modern self-defense oriented jujutsu (aka ecclectic styles)
    3) Modern competition oriented jujutsu

    (I do not necessarily agree that all of the above may qualify as jujutsu, but since the various dojo that practise these things refer to themselves as jujutsu, I do so too in this case).

    Of the first kind there is only one that I know of, and that is Hontai Yoshin ryu, practised in a couple of dojos in the soth of Sweden.
    Of the second kind there are a number of various systems/schools, all with varying number of dojos and geographical spreading.
    This also goes for the third kind, and several dojos practise both for self defense and competition...
    There are also a couple of daito-ryu places, but they are mainly connected to aikido practise in one way or another.

    And to narrow it down even further, in Uppsala where I and Johan live, there are two dojos/clubs that do practise an ecclectic jujutsu derivate (same style actually), one dojo that practise a competition oriented jujutsu and as far as I know a couple of BJJ dojos (these come and go, so I don't really keep track of them).

    So it's not really so that You can walk around until You find something that matches Your taste (unless You happen to like ecclectic or competitive "jujutsu"). You are quite limited...
    As it seems, Johan have found one of the ecclectic dojos and liked what he saw (which is "the other dojo" from my point of view
    ). So unless he wants to go for competition, I guess that is what he will get.

    Fredrik Blom

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