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Thread: Aikijujutsu in New York

  1. #61
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    Ah, I can finally repost. Must have been a glitch.

    Cady,

    Please excuse me! Allow me to rephrase?

    Right on, Sister.

    Apologetically,
    Arman Partamian
    Daito-ryu Study Group
    Maryland

  2. #62
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    Talking Damn straight

    Apology accepted.

    You're not alone. Dan thought I was a guy too when we first "met" on the jujutsu mail list, 5 years or so ago. Had to set him straight too. I just wished he'd stopped calling me "Sir" even after we met in person...



    Cady
    Cady Goldfield

  3. #63
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Arman



    You and I may disagree on the conservative nature of some schools but I offer you this; Like it or not people tend to identify each other according to classification and familiararity. If I know your teacher I know you, If I know your associates or associations..I know you..etc etc. Of course (to use your language from the other religion thread) "its all illusury."
    Nothing could be further from the truth
    Be that as it may- and to qoute Jim Henson "Peoples is peoples" and they will do what they do.

    You mentioned in your reply to Nathan that although you agreed you think that much of the caution is overblown and can be handled easily. On what experience do you base that?
    Nathan has told you the difficulties he has had. And haspointed out the potential difficulties that are presented to others We have tried to tell you of various times when the proverbial flood gates were opened, you get inundated with nonsense calls and visits?
    Ever been Dojo stormed? How about for two years?
    How about when you didn't ask for the publicity?
    It seems antithetical to American marketing that many cannot wait till the furrer over Daito ryu goes the way of Bruce Lees JKD.. or the kids who "Want to do the Kung fu."


    It has not escaped my attention that you have affixed an identifyer to your signature While few of us have:

    Arman Partamian
    Daito-ryu Study Group
    Maryland

    Obviously you wish those reading to know you have affiliations with this start up group.
    What do you wish it to mean?
    What does it say to us that have been in it for years, under different styles?
    Does it mean anything to me?
    Does the identity you have chosen to reveal have any reference or bearing on our estimations of your thoughts and opinions? Or do they stand on their own?
    If you commit fuax paus and make an ass of yourself who does it reflect on?
    If you reveal things accidentally that you shouldn't who does it harm?
    Are you capable or representing that group in everyway?
    if not, why identify?
    Aren't you a bit uncomfortable being perceived as representing them?

    Doesn't that push a fear, or humility button in you?

    I know very senior students in various arts who would not have the "perceived" audacity to identify like that. They even refer to their schools in the third person. Why?
    They do not see themselves (with only twenty or so years in) as wanting to be speaking for or even being mistakenly taken as a representative of, their schools.
    Thats just a personal opinion of course

    On another note
    Bigaikidoguy went out of his way to tell us his size; twice
    What does that say about him?

    All of us, in a willingness to share, be human, and interact, will blow it now and then. We are just poeple. E-budo has done a servce to the budo community. Some of us when we are at our best contribute to that cause. But again, we are of flesh and bone. So on our bad days we fail. Just like in the dojo. Everyone who is tryng to truly share their experiences here will miss now and again.

    When you see us choosing to remain "non affialiated" think of it as humility instead of arrogance. Why share the frailty of the flesh?


    I echo Nathan cautions as well. There are men who do not want the publicity. Jump on over to the Aikido Journal site under Aikido General; Sagawa saga... to catch more on people not understanding why something should be kept hidden.
    As Nathan implied there have been people booted from organizations for revealing too much. Add to that people having commmon respect for the wishes of those who choose to remain as behind the scene as possible.

    You wondered why some folks don't just vanish then? Why talk at all?
    I can see your point but why do they have to do anything to fit someone elses expectations. They can do what they want. You or I don't have to like it. It just .....is

    Is it ok to discuss somethings?
    yes it is
    Is it ok to share information, thoughts and opinions on previous research?
    Yes it is
    Is it ok to decide all on your own when to stop and not discuss technique, style, affiliation, or anything else for that matter and just remain generic?
    Yes it is


    As for several of us "hesitant posters" here
    We gab all the time in private email to each other.
    We just won't do it here, in public.

    Dan
    Last edited by Dan Harden; 9th January 2002 at 08:59.

  4. #64
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    Dan,

    I guess I'll just start by answering your questions one-by-one.

    -"You mentioned in your reply to Nathan that although you agreed you think that much of the caution is overblown and can be handled easily. On what experience do you base that?"

    Personal experience. I don't give out phone numbers, addresses, teacher locations, etc., etc., without prior permission. Furthermore, I've never had someone constantly bug me after I have said "Thanks, but no thanks." But of course, this leads me to your next question.

    -"Ever been Dojo stormed?"

    No. I don't think I even know what "dojo stormed" means. Sounds scary.

    -"How about for two years?"

    See answer above.

    -"It has not escaped my attention that you have affixed an identifyer to your signature While few of us have:

    Arman Partamian
    Daito-ryu Study Group
    Maryland

    Obviously you wish those reading to know you have affiliations with this start up group.
    What do you wish it to mean?"

    I assumed the answer to this question would be obvious. I place this marker under my signature so when people read my posts on a martial arts BB, they have at least some idea of what I study and what my background and interests are. I use it for all of my E-Budo posts, of course, but I think it is especially important for aikijujutsu posts. Why? So when I am discussing an aikijujutsu topic, people don't have to wonder, "Has this guy ever practiced the art? What's his background," etc. The marker at least gives them some indication I have at least a little experience with what I am talking about.

    -"What does it say to us that [sic] have been in it for years, under different styles?"

    I don't think I'm qualified to speak for what it means to you [us?].

    -"Does it mean anything to me?"

    See answer above.

    -"Does the identity you have chosen to reveal have any reference or bearing on our estimations of your thoughts and opinions? Or do they stand on their own?"

    Compound question here. First part: See answer above. Second part: How else would they stand?

    -"If you commit fuax paus and make an ass of yourself who does it reflect on?"

    All those I am publicly associated with (as well as privately, in truth).

    -"If you reveal things accidentally that you shouldn't who does it harm?"

    All those who are associated with the group I belong to.

    -"Are you capable or [sic] representing that group in everyway?"

    No, not in everyway.

    -"if not, why identify?"

    See multiple answers above.

    -"Aren't you a bit uncomfortable being perceived as representing them?"

    I don't represent myself in any manner beyond that which I have been given permission to do. My identification marker is not an issue or problem. Trust me (or don't, it doesn't really matter).

    -"Doesn't that push a fear, or humility button in you?"

    Hmmm. Well, if you must know my personal emotional response to being allowed to publicly indicate what I study: fear, no. Humility, always.

    -"I know very senior students in various arts who would not have the "perceived" audacity to identify like that."

    Not really a question, but inflammatory, nonetheless. Let's see, "audacity": meaning bold or arrogant. I didn't realize I was being bold or arrogant by indicating what I study and with what group. In fact, I don't think I am being audacious. So, I deny the implication of this statement. (Hopefully, you won't find me audacious for denying that I am audacious).

    -"They do not see themselves (with only twenty or so years in) as wanting to be speaking for or even being mistakenly taken as a representative of, their schools.
    Thats just a personal opinion of course"

    Who else's opinion would it be?

    -"When you see us choosing to remain "non affialiated" think of it as humility instead of arrogance. Why share the frailty of the flesh?"

    I never said you, Dan, were arrogant. As for the frailty of the flesh, I'll leave that one alone.

    -"You wondered why some folks don't just vanish then? Why talk at all?
    I can see your point but why do they have to do anything to fit someone elses expectations. They can do what they want. You or I don't have to like it. It just .....is"

    I never said don't talk at all. I said people who want their arts to remain secluded are better served by refusing to reply to inquisitive posts regarding their respective arts. I don't see the problem here.

    -"As for several of us "hesitant posters" here
    We gab all the time in private email to each other.
    We just won't do it here, in public."

    Sorry to disagree, Dan, but you do "do it" here in public. Perhaps not to the extent, or to the fullest, that you may do in private. Nevertheless, in my short time here at E-Budo, you have never come across to me as a "hesitant poster."

    Finally, I have not said anything that would misrepresent my art, or any others. I have not said anything that would reveal any "secrets" of my art, or any others. In fact, I fail again to see what your problem really is? (and please, you don't have to answer this question)

    Sincerely yours,
    Arman Partamian
    Daito-ryu Study Group
    Maryland

  5. #65
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    Default Troll Patrol

    Well well well.

    Jason Brinn is apparently a real person, and has emailed me in objection of the email Mr. Hunt posted publicly here.

    Mr. Brinn claims that he did not even write it, and that he suspects that the person posting as "Michael Hunt" is someone he knows trying to publicly slander him for political reasons.

    Yamantaka actually found Mr. Brinn on the Aikido Journal board, which I noticed yesterday (pretty interesting thread anyway):

    Oshikiuchi/ Daito-ryu

    As such, I am removing the email that Mr. Hunt posted publicly for two reasons:

    1) If Mr. Brinn didn't write it, then the email Mr. Hunt posted is fictional and does not need to be on this forum.

    2) Even if Mr. Brinn did write it, he obviously didn't intend for the email to be submitted to the public eye. If you look up "public" in the dictionary, I think you'll agree that an email between two parties cannot be considered as such unless it is stated in the email.

    In either event, the "email quote" does not belong on this forum. I'd really prefer that petty political crap not be slung around on this forum. Please go elsewhere to sling mud.

    BTW, it doesn't sound like Mr. Popkin knows anyone named Michael Hunt either.

    Regards,

    PS. Dojo storming ("dojo arashi") is an old custom of rival martial artists/groups going to another dojo to challenge them. These days, this is typically done by knuckleheads and NHB/UFC fighters.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  6. #66
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Well Nathan

    After all is said and done, we read him right, and right from the starting gate I may add. Interesting, what is that the fourth or fifth time that we have spotted a come-on from a single question?
    And everyone else got sucked right in......oh well

    *********************
    Nathan writes to clarify my point:

    PS. Dojo storming ("dojo arashi") is an old custom of rival martial artists/groups going to another dojo to challenge them. These days, this is typically done by knuckleheads and NHB/UFC fighters.
    **********************

    Thanks Nathan
    This happened to some other people I know who had a name out there and were doing jujutsu before the NHB fad hit. I met some interesting characters through it though.

    Arman
    My response to the poster was preplanned and discussed behind the scenes. And no I'm not going to say why.

    As for the other comments between you and I;
    I am going to let it lay as is. I see your points and while we agree on some- we disagree on others. But I do so with respect for the mindest you have portrayed in your prior posts and contributions. You don't have to respond in kind with a forced politeness- its cool bud.
    We come from different places and experiences, perhaps even different generations. I'll try to contribute even less on this forum and stick to the sword forum, where I mostly post anyway.
    Since I still won't contribute anything having to do with technical attributes of the art anyway- its no loss. Of course Nathan won't either, Kit doesn't study it and neither will the dozen or so guys I know who do and read here but won't post anything-never did. So the conversations will remain pretty limited. Five years ago (or so) when E-Budo started up I dubbed the AJJ forum the forum that ain't or wouldn't be. For the simple fact that no one would talk about it. And there you go.
    There is plenty of great discussion going on behind the scenes anyway.
    Good luck in your studies of such a fine art.

    Peace


    Dan
    Last edited by Dan Harden; 11th January 2002 at 23:40.

  7. #67
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    Dan,

    Thanks for your post. I harbor no ill-will towards you, and I certainly hope that we can engage in thoughtful discussions in the future.

    As for the AJJ forum, as you have guessed, I suppose I will be one of the few students of the art who is in fact interested in contributing to the forum. I actually hope that you are wrong about who will and won't contribute, or it could be a long and lonely ride.

    As for your pre-arranged response to "Mr. Hunt," I suppose in light of Nathan's revelations, I can see why you many times post in a rather, to put it politely, caustic manner . My only concern is that such responses will pre-emptively scare away good contributions to the forum. Of course, I suppose that wouldn't bother you too much, in light of your position on the existence of the AJJ forum.

    I hope, however, that over time you will come to see that you have nothing to fear from a more open AJJ forum. I have far too much respect for my teachers and the art to ever say something that would harm them or it. BTW, I also doubt I will ever say much in detail about DR technique, simply because you just can't really say anything really worthwhile without doing it. For a very long time, I might add.

    Who knows? Perhaps after awhile, even you will be moved toward a more open discussion of what we both agree is a wonderful art (don't worry, I won't be holding my breath ).

    Good luck to you as well,
    Cheers
    Arman Partamian
    Daito-ryu Study Group
    Maryland

  8. #68
    brokehart Guest

    Default ajj school's in nyc?

    hi all,
    i was just wondering,are thier any akijujutsu dojo's in nyc(manhattan or brooklyn)?
    any iformation would be gratefully accepted.



    thank you,
    kevin kash

  9. #69
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    Default check out

    Look of Ibarra (think he's in the Bronx though) and San Yama Bushi for starters...
    JJM

  10. #70
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    Mr. Kash,

    In case you're looking for your thread, it has been merged with this one.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  11. #71
    Ryan L Guest

    Default Aikijujutsu in Manhattan?

    Please let me know if you know of any good instructors in the Manhattan, New York area.

  12. #72
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    Private message me.
    E. Carlos Estrella, Jr.

    The strength of a man is not measured in how much he can lift, how many he can fight or how much he can endure, but in his capacity to admit his limitations and learn to successfully circumvent them.

  13. #73
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    A division of the Takumakai has apparentally opened in New York. I'd be willing travel to get something legit.

    http://www.yushinkan.org/takumakai/

    I however know nothing of this particular training group.

    Good luck
    Matthew Rogers
    Scarborough Martial Arts Training Group
    http://www.spiritforging.com

  14. #74
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    Default question regarding teacher and system

    Hello all,

    I am in the westchester NY area. I am actually looking for any traditional aikijutsu or jujitsu schools either in my area or the bronx. I found one place by accident but i am having trouble verifying the teacher or lineage.

    His name is sensei jerold rivera and he say's he teaches aikijutsu of the katsugo ryu school that was taught to him by grandmaster Joseph Torres. If anyone can verify either person or school of combat it would be most helpful.

    Also, If anyone know's of any traditional schools within the area I am in. It would help very much as well.

  15. #75
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    I would contact Sensei Howard Popkin. http://www.popkinbrognaselfdefense.c...6/Default.aspx

    The katsugo ryu does not have good feedback. http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...t=58876&page=7

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